Iraq Constitution Approval Another Setback for Bush
(2005-10-25) — In yet another setback for the Bush administration, Iraqi electoral officials announced today that voters have approved the new Iraqi Constitution by a margin of 78-to-21 percent.
This new bit of bad news will likely drive President George Bush’s popularity ratings into the single digits, according to an unnamed expert from a non-partisan, progressive political think-tank.
“The Bush foreign policy continues to be fatally-wounded by clarity of purpose, dogged persistence and a pathetic failure to capitulate in the face of opposition,” the source said. “At a time when a real leader would be paralyzed with self-doubt over the meaningless deaths of 2,000 American troops, Bush continues to act as if freeing 25 million Iraqis from decades of oppression, torture and death is somehow worth the price paid by those who volunteered to fight.”
“It’s sad to watch our international credibility crumble like this,” the anonymous policy expert said. “In 2008, I’m afraid you’re going to see voters leaving the Republican party in droves, desperate to find a leader who provides a stronger sense of nuance and ambiguity.”
Funny story!
I wish we were really making a difference, I truly do
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 8:34 am
THIS is not a scrappleface comment..
See? They don’t exist anymore!
Comment by spacemonkey — October 25, 2005 @ 8:42 am
Obviously not
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 9:25 am
Great story, sir! W just never mastered that biting his lip pretending to look concerned bit. If only he could just stop truly caring about making the world a different place and then achieving such strides to that end. You add that to his pesky habit of doing what he said he was going to do and this guy is really an enigma!
Comment by Shelly — October 25, 2005 @ 9:40 am
Just one big happy family over there…
“Several Shi’ite and Kurdish regions voted between 95 and 99 percent “Yes”; in rebellious, Sunni Anbar 97 percent said “No.”
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 9:47 am
Boberin, but now they can vote “no” without ending up in a mass grave. Some of us see that as a “difference.”
Comment by Shelly — October 25, 2005 @ 9:53 am
Shelly, they don’t need Saddam to kill them. They are perfectly willing and able to kill each other and they will continue that for the forseeable future.
If we had actually restored (or created) such things as reliable power, clean water and sewage removal we might actually have won some hearts and minds but, we didn’t. They don’t like us, they don’t like each other.
Solve the “problem”? Not likely, not likely at all.
Granted, it would be nice but it’s not realistic
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 10:08 am
Another great story Scott… as usual. Too bad the LLL’s just don’t want to hear the truth and keep ranting that the sky is falling. They sound like five-year olds covering their ears and yelling, “La, la, la, la….”
Comment by Hawkeye® — October 25, 2005 @ 10:42 am
My bad, experts agree….everything is going to be fine, really
“Of the 1,997 who have died, 139 were killed before President Bush declared the cessation of major combat in Iraq on May 1, 2003.
Forty-six servicewomen have died.
As the death toll mounts, often overlooked is the number of wounded. That number stands at 15,220, according to the Pentagon. Of those, 7,159 were so seriously hurt that they have not returned to duty.”
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 11:00 am
The new Iraqi National Motto “Duck - Cover - Vote”
Comment by BienHoaBaby — October 25, 2005 @ 11:02 am
Iraqi’s don’t want no steenking electricity bills. That’s why they keep bombing the Poles!
Comment by kajun — October 25, 2005 @ 11:04 am
It sounds to me, like the US troops are safer in Iraq than in the US, boberin.
Many more than 15,220 are wounded in one week here at home, and well over 7,159 are nursing themselves with Workman’s Comp.
Comment by kajun — October 25, 2005 @ 11:10 am
kajun, could be…
I’m fond of pointing out that they might be safer there than in Phila. We just love to kill each other here. We are almost tied with New York city this year and they have 5 times as many people
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 11:14 am
Hawkeye, you’re right about the hands-over-the-ears “I can’t hear you!” Rather than see democracy moving forward as a good thing, they have to do the “life is miserable” and “Bush is bad no matter what” tantrum. “Not all Iraqis agree with each other!!!” Unlike American where Republicans and Democrats are joining hands. “Iraqi’s are killing each other!” Fortunately we don’t have that problem here in the U.S. “They don’t have electricity in some places!” Tell it to Florida. Some people have no skill beyond criticizing. I guess they build themselves up by attempting to tear others down, even when the truth is staring them in the face. The rest of us need to make sure people like this are never in charge of our personal safety.
Comment by Shelly — October 25, 2005 @ 11:17 am
On August 7, 1942 the US conducted its first Offensive campaign of WWII, on a little known patch of ground called Guadalcanal. 1,769 marines died in a few months, but in the process killed 20,800 Imperial Japanese soldiers and secured the air field. My question for Liberals: If you had been old enough to vote, would you have advocated for:
a. Surrendered to the Japanese due to our high battlefield losses
b. Withdrawn from the Pacific preferring to wait and fight the Japanese on the beaches of California.
c. Vote to Impeach FDR
d. Fire Gen. McArthur for incompetence
e. All of the above
Comment by BienHoaBaby — October 25, 2005 @ 11:25 am
BienHoaBaby, they wouldn’t have advocated for anything. They would have just ignored all that went well and complained.
Comment by Shelly — October 25, 2005 @ 11:30 am
Shelly, do you actually read any of the coverage from Iraq? Couldn’t hurt you know (well, maybe a little).
I want as badly as anyone for everything to be fine, to believe that we have not permanently altered the lives of 10,000 young men and women in vain.
However, if you actually do read at all, while there are some positive things happening but there is more that is very bad, very bad indeed and getting worse in many cases
Sorry if those fact don’t jive with what your rose colored glasses are showing you. Take em off for a minute, not pleasant but once in a while…
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 11:31 am
beinhoa, were the Iraqi’s storming the beach in New Jersey? Were they on a boat on the way over? Would they ever have been?
Apples are apples, peaches are not
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 11:34 am
BAGHDAD, Iraq, Oct. 21, 2005 — A new $4.9 million electrical substation will provide approximately 20,000 Iraqis in the southwestern portion of Babil an increase in power reliability. The substation, completed in early October, replaces an existing facility.
Local Iraqis performed the labor that included design and construction of a 33/11 kilovolt switch-gear building, a guard house and installation of two transformers and new switch gear equipment. The local Iraqi economy benefited from the project over the past 10 months, as 80 to 140 Iraqis worked at the site each week since construction began in January 2005.
http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/oct2005/a102105pj3.html
Comment by Shelly — October 25, 2005 @ 11:37 am
MOSUL, Iraq, Oct. 12, 2005 — School days are here and Sulayminyah school renovations are nearing completion.
Seven out of ten schools renovated in the Sulayminyah district are complete. The other three are ninety percent finished and will be ready for business by Oct. 15. The $354.441 million projects will benefit 6,000 students and employ 325 local teachers and headmasters from this northern Iraq province thus protecting the future advancement of its children.
http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/oct2005/a101105pj3.html
(A few great photos here as well.)
Comment by Shelly — October 25, 2005 @ 11:41 am
That’s great news! Seriously
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 11:41 am
BAGHDAD, Iraq, Oct. 11, 2005 — The effort to train, equip and mentor Iraq’s security forces hit a milestone recently, with the number of men and women serving in uniform stretching past 200,000.
Currently the Iraqi Ministry of Interior has 106,112 personnel serving as part of security forces. The Ministry of Defense has 93,959 servicemembers in the military.
http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/oct2005/a101105pj2.html
Comment by Shelly — October 25, 2005 @ 11:42 am
boberin…
Why shucks. I think YOU are a peach! The Iraqis weren’t storming the beaches of New Jersey, but their buddies the Al-Qaeda were certainly flying their missiles into the Twin Towers just a few miles away. We watched the towers come down from the New Jersey beaches. Like GWB said, this is a war against ALL terrorists… and against states that harbor and support terrorism. Iraq under Saddam fits that definition. Ergo, QED.
Comment by Hawkeye® — October 25, 2005 @ 11:46 am
BAGHDAD, Iraq, Sept. 29, 2005 – Most Americans take running water for granted. Not so for some residents near Iraq’s northern city of Kirkuk. Before January 2005, they had never had running water. …But 25,000 more Iraqi people now have access to fresh water.
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Sep2005/20050929_2881.html
Comment by Shelly — October 25, 2005 @ 11:48 am
For those who prefer visuals…
http://www.defendamerica.mil/photogallery.html
Comment by Shelly — October 25, 2005 @ 11:49 am
More than a week after a referendum on a new constitution, Iraq looks much as it did before the vote: Kurdish militias patrol the north; warring Shiite Muslim militias wrestle for control of the south; and in the center, an insurgency supported by an angry Sunni Arab minority battles U.S. forces, the Iraqi government and the Shiites.
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 11:50 am
By Lolita C. Baldor / Associated Press
At least 21 detainees who died while being held in U.S. custody in Iraq and Afghanistan were killed, many during or after interrogations, according to an analysis of Defense Department data by the American Civil Liberties Union.
Tuesday, October 25, 2005 (Philly.com)
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 11:53 am
(Removing rose-colored glasses and reading)…hmmm, 10,000 Cannibals Killed By FEMA In New Orleans, only 1009 sets of bones recovered!
Comment by kajun — October 25, 2005 @ 11:53 am
Shelly, don’t waste your breath! Don’t try and confuse the resident troll with facts! He wants this over like all our other wars! In five minutes, with the use of the magic wand!! This is the only war where people were injured and killed don’t you know?!;oÞ This is the only war where we had troops in harms way for more than a month….what?! We occupied Germany for how long? How long were we in Japan? How long did it take us to pull out of Korea? What?! We’re still there?! Go sit in the corner Bobo! If we want bad news, all we have to do is turn on the tv, read the paper etc…..heaven forbid any good news should trickle out.
Comment by upnorthlurkin — October 25, 2005 @ 11:53 am
In my book, the Sunnis don’t have much going for them. They were some of the only people around the world who actually cheered when the WTC towers went down. Why am I not surprised that they emerge now as ruthless killers, homicide-bombers and IED makers?
Comment by Hawkeye® — October 25, 2005 @ 11:58 am
boberin— Well, if it’s the Associated Press quoting the ACLU, then why am I not impressed? That’s like the New York Times quoting the DNC about Republicans… sheesh!
Comment by Hawkeye® — October 25, 2005 @ 12:03 pm
The four-week moving average of attacks - which smoothes out daily fluctuations - has had peaks and valleys but generally has stayed about the same or increased during the last 18 months, military statistics show. Perhaps most worrying, the weekly number of effective attacks - those that wounded or killed U.S. and Iraqi troops or civilians - has on average more than doubled since February 2004 to 165 during the week of Oct. 7.
Some U.S. military officers say the violence could worsen if the political system fractures further.
“Maybe they just need to have their civil war,” a senior military official in Baghdad said recently. “In this part of the world it’s almost a way of life.” He spoke on condition of anonymity because his opinions are at odds with official views.
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 12:04 pm
I’ve mentioned these two sites before, but in case you’re tempted to believe one inkling of the lamestream/trolls bilge, or if you just need a lift you can subscribe to Centcom’s weekly newsletters. Be careful though….you might read about positive things our military is accomplishing all over the world!!
http://www.centcom.mil/CentcomNews/Newsletterarchive/newsletter _ list.htm or
http://www.centcom.mil/Operations/Coalition/Bulletin/bulletin26.pdf
Comment by upnorthlurkin — October 25, 2005 @ 12:09 pm
Boberin, you’re right. The rest of us dance around fields of daisies in our perfect worlds where we eat whatever we want and never have a bad hair day. The world is a lovely peaceful place where there is never any conflict and everyone will live happily ever after.
Comment by Shelly — October 25, 2005 @ 12:14 pm
Now that Iraq has approved their new Constitution, The Bush Administration has been tasked to find 9 Leftist, Pro-Burka, Ayatolla-Leaning Anarchists to make up the Iraqi Supreme Court. Boss Reids list of acceptable candidates was delivered to the President by courier, early this morning.
Comment by kajun — October 25, 2005 @ 12:21 pm
You folks don’t get me. I think the men and women in the armed services are the best, my daughter is one of them. I think they are doing everything possible to make everything better. They are brave, honest, hardworking folks.
It’s the mission I disagree with. Saddam was a bad man, very bad. He did manage to hold together 3 groups that hate each others guts. That wasn’t because Saddam was around, it’s because they hate (really hate) each other. We aren’t talking Democrats and Republicans, we are talking generations of folks, each raised to hate the other groups enough to fight with them constantly.
9/11 has nothing to do with it. Syria and Saudi Arabia, they had something to do with it but we didn’t invade them. They continue to back terrorists to this very day. Saddam had little time for such things, never thought much of that Osama guy and he said so.
Aghanistan, a different deal, they were surely harboring terrorists and, last I checked, they still had at least one that we might like to find, trouble is we got distracted, pretty much randomly chose one of the dozen or so bad men and decided to invade his country. For what? To liberate folks that don’t like us.
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 12:29 pm
Kajun, glad to know Bush is already hard at work on his next setback.
Comment by Shelly — October 25, 2005 @ 12:43 pm
I’d have to say, approval ratings in the single digits mean our leader is getting things done!! ;o)
Comment by upnorthlurkin — October 25, 2005 @ 12:48 pm
Another dirty little secret….our mission in Iraq is not to get people to like us!! Personally, I prefer respect. As the world’s only super power, almost everyone weaker than us doesn’t like us. Bummer! Not our mission, never was! Peace through superior fire power!
Comment by upnorthlurkin — October 25, 2005 @ 1:03 pm
upnorth, somehow, at least to me, it would make better sense to spend out time on folks that appreciate the effort, but that’s just me. I’m a manager, big deal, but I manage a small spin off of a large company. The parent company likes the “management through intimidation” approach and the employees tolerate working there. My employees actually like and respect me and, for the most part, enjoy working here. These things are not mutually exclusive as well they should not be
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 1:08 pm
And just for giggles, this is an American hero;
http://viewfromtonka.blogspot.com/2005/09/injured-marine-defies-attackers-1.html
Comment by upnorthlurkin — October 25, 2005 @ 1:10 pm
Citizens of Tall Afar are providing information that is leading to the capture of terrorists and the discovery of these weapons and military caches. During one raid, citizens applauded Iraqi Army and Coalition Forces as they led captured terrorists away.
http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/News_Release.asp?NewsRelease=20051080.txt
Comment by Shelly — October 25, 2005 @ 1:18 pm
Hello all!
Thanks Scott!
Comment by Libby Gone™ — October 25, 2005 @ 1:21 pm
Awwww, Bob’s employees like him….isn’t that special?! Good thing you’re a manager at a private business and not a soldier! Apples and oranges. Commander in chief of our military, President of these United States - Bob. Nope - no comparison. Seems to me the countries who “don’t like us” pose a much bigger threat than the ones “Who would appreciate the effort”. Go join the peace corps! Your views are exactly the reason we can never let people who think like you have control over our national defense!
Comment by upnorthlurkin — October 25, 2005 @ 1:23 pm
Libby, what’s shakin?
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 1:23 pm
A liberal NFL fan: I support the NY Giants, but I don’t support football. Afterall:
a. The fans of the opposing team might not like us (especially if we win)
b. Someone may get hurt while playing football, it’s violent.
c. All the equipment and stadiums cost a lot of money that could be better spent elsewhere.
d. If we lose, well our credibility is shot.
e. The opposing teams should consult with the referees and let them decide who the winner would be.
Moral of the Story: You can’t honestly say you support a volunteer military and not also support their mission.
Comment by BienHoaBaby — October 25, 2005 @ 1:30 pm
Hey boberin,
not much, nice to see Scrappleface is alive and well.
Comment by Libby Gone™ — October 25, 2005 @ 1:37 pm
Try this site and its many links, boberin: http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
or this article/interview: http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=19899
Your MSM citations are really tiresome in their repeatedly negative message.
Comment by onlineanalyst — October 25, 2005 @ 1:51 pm
bein, very poor analogy, really
folks choose to play football, know going in exactly what to expect. yep, folks that join the military know they may well go to war.
football players are free to quit, right in the middle of the game if they feel like it or don’t like how things are going, no one offers to imprison them or shoot them for desertion (except perhaps rabid fans)
I can absolutely support and honor the military and not agree one iota with it’s mission. They did not choose the mission, they have no say whatever (nor should they) in how it plays out.
They can, and should, be respected for serving well and honorably
More peaches anyone?
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 1:55 pm
Nice photo, UpNorth; Omaha’s my hometown, and I certainly recognized the particular brand of “patriotism” displayed by that soldier.
Comment by JQ — October 25, 2005 @ 2:06 pm
boberin:
Like that character in “Peanuts”, you’re always walking around with a rain cloud over your head, although the sun is shining brightly. You’re happy when you’re sad.
Shortly after the April, 2003, invasion of Iraq, the Mother of All Sandstorms caused coalition ground forces to halt their advance until it blew over. On that occasion the Lame Stream Media Weenies trotted out, for the first time in this war, the term, “quagmire”, to describe the military situation. (Since Viet Nam, they’d been lusting after the chance to dust off that bromide and trumpet it on the front page.)
The LSM’s horn flourish has tooted the same theme since then, with only the particular situations changed. It’s too bad you’ve fallen for their distortions. A certain subset of the citizenry want their credulity to be strained past the breaking point, derive a perverse enjoyment from being lied to by the media elites, and are impervious to facts and analytical thought.
Your latest jeremiad—”But they don’t like us [whine, whine]”—is one of your silliest and most maudlin. Ignoring a 78-21 approval margin for the new Iraqi constitution is tantamount to ignoring a whale in a wading pool. It makes you look both foolish and tendentious—just like the Media Weenies who badmouthed the process, predicted massive disruption of it by the “insurgents”, predicted the Sunnis wouldn’t participate and would foment civil war, and who—given the manifest success of the process—now have been exposed as the partisan dummies and hacks they are.
As usual, the LSM was 100% wrong about the vote on the constitution. They won’t apologize for their errors to their dwindling readership/viewership; rather, the LSM will brazenly ignore their appalling errors. For the LSM, the past is merely prologue to more of the same. Maestro Ott’s incisive satire has deftly skewered their conceits.
These are the morons in whom you place your trust and confidence? Say it ain’t so. Time to smell the coffee, boberin.
Comment by The Great Santini — October 25, 2005 @ 2:22 pm
online,
I scanned both links and there are certainly some encouraging things mentioned at them. I know polls are often rigged. I have never said all the news was negative and I have said I truly hope this thing works out, it just doesn’t seem like it is much of the time.
and, just curious, what makes the information on those sites (the second is the sum total of one man’s opinion) any more or less valid than the sources I cite from “main stream” media?
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 2:28 pm
It seems rather ridiculous to me for anyone to suggest that to question the military’s mission is the same as to withdraw support from our troops. Obviously, Private John Doe has absolutely no say in what the US military sets as its objectives. It’s entirely possible to support the soldier in his desire to do his duty for his country while disagreeing with the overall military agenda. To say otherwise is just political doubletalk and camouflage of the issue.
That being said, I support our troops and their mission.
I appreciated onlineanalyst’s link to the Frontpage article; I especially like the comparison of the MSM’s reaction to Iraq to the MSM’s reaction to Germany in WWII.
As was mentioned several threads ago, I think a big problem with the MSM’s point of view on war is that it’s always reduced to a “for or against” deal. I just don’t see war in general as something that we can always be either “for” or “against;” rather the question should be, “Is it worth fighting for?” There’s a huge difference between being pro-war and feeling that something is worth fighting for. I just can’t imagine any reasonable person being entirely anti-war. If someone does claim to be anti-war, and then claims to “support our troops,” now that is a contradiction. Our troops exist, ultimately, to inflict violence in war; if you’re against all forms of war, you’re against our troops.
Sure, in a perfect world, we’d all sit around a table and work out our differences over tea (or Mountain Dew; I hate tea!), but it’s not a perfect world. Some people just cannot be reined in by anything short of military might.
OK, this comment is due to be over….NOW.
Comment by JQ — October 25, 2005 @ 2:28 pm
santini,
what is your prediction for the look of Iraq in 5 years? a safe and stable place, perhaps a nice place to vacation with the wife and kids? if it is, I’ll eat every negative word I’ve said but I’m guessing that is not your prediction.
I rarely/never watch the “big 3″ networks. I do read the newspaper, aticles both good and not so good about what is happening. I follow many of the links you folks provide, read some, scan some. I get the Federalist sent to my in box and read nearly every word.
This war did nothing to make us safer and it’s a long way from making Iraqis any better off. Could happen, doesn’t seem like it is to me
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 2:36 pm
Look at the links on the Iraq the Model site, boberin. Most of those blogs are written by Iraqis and Middle Eastern sources. ‘Nuff said.
Comment by onlineanalyst — October 25, 2005 @ 2:42 pm
The Great Santini, are you suggesting that 78-21 is a mandate?
Comment by Shelly — October 25, 2005 @ 2:45 pm
Boberin-
You said: “This war did nothing to make us safer and it’s a long way from making Iraqis any better off. Could happen, doesn’t seem like it is to me.”
What this war has done has been to remove governmental sanction of violence toward Iraqi citizens, as well as government-sanctioned terrorism. That’s huge. How much hope does the citizen of a country have to know that the highest appeal they have is to a man like Saddam Hussein? Granted, at this stage, the Iraqi government is still learning to crawl, and it’s “military might” is far from adequate; however, it’s a giant leap in the right direction for a country that has grown accustomed to being “governed” by a narcissistic, homicidal maniac.
I think the point that we’re all trying to make is that, rather than mock the toddler for falling (and criticizing his parents for encouraging him), we should be praising him for getting on his feet in the first place.
Comment by JQ — October 25, 2005 @ 2:51 pm
Excuse me, but I think BienhoaBaby’s analogy is great! Anyone enlisting in the military who doesn’t expect to go to war doesn’t live in the real world. The military is not “Meals on Wheels” like the Bubba administration wanted to make it. It’s no secret; the military kills our enemies and breaks things. You wanna make folks like us…again I say, “join the Peace Corps or become a missionary!
Comment by upnorthlurkin — October 25, 2005 @ 2:52 pm
online, how could the opinions fo literally 10’s of Iraqi individuals be biased on any way? Hmmmm, not remotely possible that someone put them up to spreading the “good news”. So, them you believe but the media you don’t.
Interesting distinction, really. How did the folks posting to that site become so trustworthy to you?
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 2:56 pm
Upnorthlurkin
I wonder if boberin would like to take up
“budgie jumping” or ‘hen gliding”?
It is good to be back home and see everybody is getting along as usual.Off to catch up on the comments.
Comment by Maggie — October 25, 2005 @ 3:01 pm
On a related note, President Bush has been roundly attacked for declaring “the cessation of major combat.” I believe the point of this was that the we had won. Since then, the U.S. has been fighting insurgents, which Dictionary.com defines as “[one who rises] in revolt against established authority, especially a government.” US forces had accomplished the first step, which was the removal of Saddam’s dictatorship and control of the nation. Major combat was ceased. From that point on, it’s been roadside bombs, suicide bombers, and other tactics of terrorist warfare, not organized military combat.
So for the last time, leave the guy alone! As the military’s commander-in-chief, he was encouraging a lot of hard-fought troops that they had, indeed, accomplished their mission. At that point, the mission changed to watching the new government’s back as it took the reins.
Comment by JQ — October 25, 2005 @ 3:02 pm
Look at the MSM, press and television, to see what stories lead.
Comment by onlineanalyst — October 25, 2005 @ 3:04 pm
online, they should be quoting individual bloggers? how believable would that be, c’mon now
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 3:06 pm
They didn’t tell us people were being raped in murdered in the Superdome, they aren’t referring to Valerie Plame as an “covert” agent, they don’t sit in a canoe in two inches of water to report on the “flooding”,… I could go on indefinitely. I’ll stop trying to point out to you that 100% of everything going on in the world is not WRONG and BAD. You obviously choose to believe that despite reality. The rest of us see millions of Iraqi’s with access to better water, electricity, healthcare, schools, not to mention LIFE, but to you that is not making a difference. How sad for you. You will never appreciate what anyone has done, because it could never possibly be enough.
JQ, the toddler comparison is excellent.
Comment by Shelly — October 25, 2005 @ 3:07 pm
You prefer reports of journalists who are cooling their heels in Iraq’s version of Hotel California?
Don’t assume that bloggers don’t have access to sources and facts. Too many recent exposes of the MSM’s shenanigans have shown that the Internet is sharing the news, not creating it, and in the process nipping at the heels of the MSM to keep it honest.
Comment by onlineanalyst — October 25, 2005 @ 3:16 pm
JQ, that was a very good analogy indeed. (still says bien’s was not)
People were raped and murdered in the superdome, not a lot of them, how many do you need to report it?
They reported that perhaps 10,000 people died in NO because that’s what they were told, who’s fault is that?
If you have ever had 2″ of water in your living room you would call it flooding, trust me
How do you know what Vaerie Plames job was? Is there a website that lists our “covert” operatives?
If 25,000 out of some 10,000,000 folks now have clean water they should all kiss our feet, right? Ingrates
Contrary to what you seem to think I do want things to work out, I have not seen anything that makes this at all certain and you all have.
Bully for you!
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 3:18 pm
“This new bit of bad news will likely drive President George Bush’s popularity ratings into the single digits, according to an unnamed expert from a non-partisan, progressive political think-tank.”
Now THAT’S satire!
Comment by camojack — October 25, 2005 @ 3:31 pm
“JQ, the toddler comparison is excellent.” -Shelly
Thanks; my little girl’s just getting to the crawling stage, so that analogy popped into my mind pretty easily.
Boberin, I think the point is that we all know that it’s a rough road. We know that it’s going to take awhile to get Iraq back on it’s feet as a nation, but instead of giving a play-by-play of the tough setbacks, let’s emphasize the progress. You seemed to like the toddler analogy; did you apply it to the situation? What’s wrong with utilizing just a smidgen of optimism when talking about Iraq? No, we don’t know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it’ll work out, but we also don’t know that it won’t. Why take the “glass-half-empty” approach when the alternative is just as applicable?
I like you, Boberin, but your posts are all vaguely reminiscent of a certain stuffed donkey who’s always looking for his pinned-on tail, always expecting rain, and never surprised when things go wrong.
Comment by JQ — October 25, 2005 @ 3:35 pm
True enough JQ, eeyore it is but then he was rarely dissapointed and neither am I.
Afghanistan just “elected” some mighty unsavory folks to it’s parliment (or whatever they call it). The model is there to see. And it’s not worth our people dying over in my opinion. Let them (Iraqis, whomever) die for it if they want it so badly (and the jury is out on that one too, do they want it?)
Recipes anyone? bout time I suppose
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 3:42 pm
There was never any “clean” water in Iraq, until we began putting it there. Most of Iraq had no, or very little electricity, before we began providing it. There was practically no sewage disposal system in Iraq until we began building one.
My Grandson volunteered for combat duty in 2002 when he voluntarrily joined the US Army. Do you think he might have suspected that he might be called on to fight?
Off da rant before I get mad!
Comment by kajun — October 25, 2005 @ 4:07 pm
Large hotels w/o plumbing and electricity eh. I guess folks could stay there cheap. Good thing we brough the wheel to their attention as well.
And never have I ever said that folks didn’t know what they were getting into. That does not make what their commander made them do the right thing. The two things are not remotely connected
I’m thrilled that young folk are willing to do whatever is required to keep me safe and warm and I know they have to do some mighty dangerous stuff. I wish their efforts in Iraq were helping with that but, as the London bombings clearly demonstrated, this is not the case. I am not one iota safer for their current sacrifices.
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 4:22 pm
“I am not one iota safer for their current sacrifices.” -Boberin
Yet, Boberin. You’re not safer yet.
As it’s been asked several times, what’s your solution? Like it or not, we have an epidemic of Islamic fundamentalists running rampant throughout the world killing anyone who doesn’t submit to their psychotic religion. How do you plan to stop that from continuing?
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. Think of Iraq as a single step. Our military is attempting to disrupt the terrorist petrie dish that is the Middle East, by which effort they hope to put a wrench in the machinery that churns out terrorists. Maybe it’ll work, maybe it won’t. But it’s the best plan on the table right now.
“Whine, whine, whine, whine, whine. Life sucks, and then you die. And it’s all Dubya’s fault.” -Anonymous Liberal
Comment by JQ — October 25, 2005 @ 4:31 pm
boberin: if nothing else, you are consistently disingenuous. I like that about you. There’s a lot to be said for predictability.
Psssst - no one was raped or murdered in the superdome either. All a media frenzy myth. Go here and read http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/nation/12761493.htm
Comment by BienHoaBaby — October 25, 2005 @ 4:41 pm
The media will lead off the news or dwell on the round figure of 2,000 and the bread and circuses of the phony grievers instead of the remarkable referendum results in Iraq, but someone who speaks with more authority on statistics offers this observation: http://homepage.mac.com/cptchaz/iblog/C223513943/E20051023225732/index.html
Comment by onlineanalyst — October 25, 2005 @ 4:41 pm
Frankly, the reason that boberin’s employees like him so much as a manager (his own evaluation BTW) is that he spends a lot of his work day on the computer serving as a mole for moveon and Moore instead of supervising his charges.
Comment by onlineanalyst — October 25, 2005 @ 4:45 pm
oooh, a tad catty there online, but that’s ok. personal attacks are just fine, I’m a big boy (rubber/glue etc….).
I’m chained to the computer, others do the “dirty” work for me. I handle pressure much better than most, don’t see any reason to take my problems (there are plenty each day) out on others
2,000 is one figure, 15,000 wounded, 7,200 of them missing bits and pieces is another figure to reckon with.
All so Iraqis can vote. Worth it to you? Fine. Not worth it to me and a lot of other folks.
Why would George need to script his “impromtu” interview with the troops anyway? They all just naturally love him and support the mission so what was the need?
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 4:57 pm
It would take a LARGE book to explain the reasoning for the war in Iraq, to someone who does not want to hear it.
Comment by kajun — October 25, 2005 @ 5:07 pm
Edward Lee Pitts of the Chattanooga Times had no problem scripting questions to be directed to Rumsfeld. Do you have a problem with that boberin? I don’t. It’s a media war…tit for tat as it goes. But I do love to see the hyprocracy of the media when they and their followers start talking about scripting questions!
Comment by BienHoaBaby — October 25, 2005 @ 5:08 pm
Large hotels, etc in Iraq. were powered by generators that were shut down 2 hours after dark. They had septic tanks for sewage which emptied into the streets and alleys. Want more?
Comment by kajun — October 25, 2005 @ 5:11 pm
Thanks for the Captain Chaz link, OnlineAnalyst. That’s a real eye-opener and a clear example of how blatantly skewed the MSM’s numbers are.
Boberin, do you see the point? Just imagine how badly we’re being out and out lied to (read again - LIED TO) by the media. It is downright disturbing to me to see what is supposed to be a non-partisan, balanced source of information instead spoon-feeding the masses exactly what they want us to believe. It doesn’t bother you because their agenda is your agenda.
I just think that it’s nothing short of miraculous that President Bush was re-elected, given that he had every last medium of information reporting stacked against him. I guess it just goes to show how many real Americans are still left in this country, unwilling to be swayed by what Pete Williams or Dan Rather have to say (I just loved their shell-shocked looks when GW actually won). Just imagine how strong Bush’s support would have been if the media actually was a fair, balanced source of information. (Don’t cry, Boberin.)
Comment by JQ — October 25, 2005 @ 5:13 pm
As we speak; the first sewer lines ever, are being installed in my part of the world. What did we do before? Every house had a septic tank that emptied into an oxidation pond…durn near as good as Iraq!
Comment by kajun — October 25, 2005 @ 5:18 pm
I’m reminded of Spiderman’s mantra: “With great power comes great responsibility.” The mainstream media has great power, and they know it. However, rather than use that power to responsibly inform the masses, they abuse it by indoctrinating the readers/viewers who are naiive enough to believe that what they are getting is actually straightforward news.
Nevermind you, Boberin. I think I’m going to cry.
Comment by JQ — October 25, 2005 @ 5:20 pm
I have no love of the media either. I just don’t happen to think that because someone claims to be blogging from Iraq (even if that is true) to be a more trusted source of what is happening. I’m guessing that I can find a blog that says we are winning the war, the hearts and minds and that we are God’s gift to Iraq. I’m guessing I an find one that says we are the devil incarnate and each of us should be killed. I’m guessing that I can find one with every point of view between those 2 extremes.
You folks hate polls until one agrees with yout point of view, I’ve seen it. You hate the media until they report what you think they should.
Recipes? Maybe a nice peach cobbler to end the days activities?
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 5:21 pm
Blame it on Bush, Kajun. He should have had sewer lines in there 20 years ago!
Comment by JQ — October 25, 2005 @ 5:22 pm
There has never been, and will never be peace without a winner and a loser. Possibly you can win and have peace through diplomacy but I can’t name one international conflict that was solved and resulted in lasting peace through diplomacy. ( Don’t say Korean Conflict, that was just a cease fire, not a peaceful resolution of differences)
A responsible winner after an armed conflict is necessary to dictate terms that will result in lasting peace. Unfortunately, France botched the job after WWI, trying to gain revenge on the Germans. We’re culpable too by not stopping the French from guaranteeing WWII.
Nevertheless, responsible winners will dictate fair terms that will ensure a lasting peace. Pray that we are responsible winners in the war on terror.
Comment by BienHoaBaby — October 25, 2005 @ 5:22 pm
Boberin, did you even read that guy’s blog? He was pointing at official databases; CNN, even. Take a look yourself; a large percentage of the “descriptions” on CNN’s death toll roster are things like “Equipment misfire” or “Helicopter crash” or “Humvee rolled over.” These are not combat casualties, and as we’ve already established, these kinds of casualties occur every day on bases across the country. I didn’t see anything on Captain Chaz’s blog that told us to take his word for it.
There’s no clouds in the sky this afternoon. Oh well; that just means that it’s going to be colder tonight. Golly, life sucks.
Comment by JQ — October 25, 2005 @ 5:26 pm
“You folks hate polls until one agrees with yout point of view, I’ve seen it. You hate the media until they report what you think they should.” -Boberin
We still hate the media, even then. We’re just overjoyed that somehow a fact was so obvious that even the MSM couldn’t disguise it.
Comment by JQ — October 25, 2005 @ 5:30 pm
One bunch spins things one way, another spins them the other and the truth is nowhere to be found…
like the sheepdog says to the cayote each night when they punch out at the tree
g’night George, same time tomorrow?
Comment by boberin — October 25, 2005 @ 5:38 pm
BienHoaBaby
The Korean Conflict was just a Police Action. I heard Truman say that.
==================================================
I don’t hate Poles Or Norwegians…unless they’re MSMiots.
Comment by kajun — October 25, 2005 @ 5:42 pm
Boberins blog is a quickie, just scrolling past the drivel.
Hey BienHoa Baby- Nice to see you back. Where have you been?
Thanks for all the kind words and prayers. I am on Robot mode. Gonna make dinner and then get some sleep. THannks again.
Comment by Mig — October 25, 2005 @ 5:42 pm
Mig: Thanks. Had to pray my son back from Iraq. I’ve spent the last 7 months on my knees in church. He returned last week from Ramadi and saw his newborn son for the first time. He had a couple of close calls (as Possum said, a little bark was knocked off the tree), but he’s fine. The Marines gave him 10 days paternity leave when he returned since his son was born while he was in Iraq. More on all that later. Good to be back.
Comment by BienHoaBaby — October 25, 2005 @ 5:51 pm
BienHoaBaby, I second mig’s sentiments. It IS good to see you back posting again!
And, God Bless your son!
Comment by da Bunny — October 25, 2005 @ 6:13 pm
Seems as though boberin is trying to make up for all the trolls that Scott got rid of . Tough job handling all that negativity by yourself,hey,bob?Then when Scrapplers started proving you wrong ,you start getting nasty ,typical TROLL,then when a few sharp replies come, bob backs right down and rolls over on his back with his legs up in the air..”hey,hey you guys ,I didn’t mean any harm ,I’m just afraid you are not right , but I’m reallya nice guy ,just like you. I’ll go on the paper from now on ,lick,lick lick”
You know what Boo , you are not a nice guy and I think Scott should take away your password. You took an excellant Satire and tried to “negative ” all over it. I’m sick of jsrks like you.
Comment by prettyold — October 25, 2005 @ 6:58 pm
Shelly:
Well, yeah…78-21 has all the earmarks of a mandate—except to LSM Weenies, who never let the facts get in the way of the story they’re determined to tell in spite of them, and, alas, to boberin and other credulous news consumers.
boberin:
Don’t change the subject. You lamented at length earlier the supposed needlessness of US expenditures (in lives and financial assets) in Iraq. But your 1436 response to me abandoned that subject and morphed into a new and different one—whether Iraq would be a destination resort in five years. Weak. Transparently weak. You lose the debate when you try to change its terms and subjects, regardless of how many recipe inquiries you make.
You said: “This war did nothing to make us safer and it’s a long way from making Iraqis any better off. ”
If you would think clearly, rather than serve up such pap as a substitute for clear thought, you might conclude that the combat deaths of thousands of jihadi murderers, over there, means those same thousands of jihadi murderers won’t be able to kill you, me, or our families, over here. That calculus is brutal, but so is war. And this one is worth fighting.
Oh, sure, Iraqis were much better off with Sodom and the late Uday and Qusay in charge! Let’s hear it for those rape rooms and torture chambers! With more than 60% of the electorate voting in the recent constitutional referendum—and 78% of ballot casters voting for it—all those ink-stained middle digits raised in triumph prove the utter fatuity
of the second part of your quoted statement.
Let’s apply your, um, “logic” to the winter of 1777-1778. By that dreary time, as the Continental Army entered its winter encampment at Valley Forge, the Revolutionary War had “…[done] nothing to make [the Americans]…safer, and it [was] a long way from making [the Americans] any better off. ” Obviously, Washington should have followed your prescription and run up the white flag.
Comment by The Great Santini — October 25, 2005 @ 7:07 pm
Hello? I can’t seem to post. Try try again.
Comment by Libby Gone™ — October 25, 2005 @ 7:09 pm
Ok I got it.
Hello everyone.
Comment by Libby Gone™ — October 25, 2005 @ 7:10 pm
Wow!
Nice job of refuting the MSM talking points, folks! Special kudos go to Shelly (for the quick links showing the good being done in Iraq), Santini (for his witty and logical destruction of obfuscation and rope-a-dopin’), BienHoaBaby (for inventive and sarcastic excellence), Kajun (for hillarity and righteous indignation) and finally, JQ (for a wonderful expose on the reality of left-wing media bias and it’s effect on public perception).
Sorry I couldn’t be here to help but I was working, you see I’m a manager and I work all day at a computer…
Comment by Beerme — October 25, 2005 @ 7:54 pm
Beerme,
Somehow I don’t think boberin can be convinced. It seems odd as he claims to have two daughters in the service. ????
Comment by Libby Gone™ — October 25, 2005 @ 8:13 pm
It does not seem that odd that he has two daughters in the service, children frequently have philosophical differences from their parents.
Comment by nylecoj — October 25, 2005 @ 8:17 pm
He is obviously only here to argue. If he were a reasonable person who is willing to see both sides of the issues, he would have been convinced by now. Perhaps his daughters can take up the good fight with him. I am tired.
Comment by Beerme — October 25, 2005 @ 8:23 pm
I’m losing some of my posts. ANyone know how to do a”smilie”?
Comment by Libby Gone™ — October 25, 2005 @ 8:35 pm
I don’t know how to make a Smilie ,Libby Gone, I’m more of a Frownie today,or even a Snarlie. I guess I’m disgruntkled,and I don’t know how to get gruntled again. boberin had been kissing up to all of Scrappleville lately,(before the big change ) and especially , lots of “Good one, Scott”s. Then he sent out this pathetic little email about how how couldn’t seem to get a password so he could join us on Scrappleface.I actually felt sorry for him.
I’m going back to the good old advice of not feeding the trolls. Maybe if we ignore him he will go away. Better yet ,he should go down and give Cindy one of those Jesse hugs.
Comment by prettyold — October 25, 2005 @ 8:54 pm
Libby, it’s so easy I can do it. You type colon, dash, close parentheses (sp?) .
Comment by Shelly — October 25, 2005 @ 9:01 pm
I did not figure that out on my own, mind you, da Bunny showed us. I don’t know how to do the smilie wearing shades. Maybe Camojack will enlighten us?
Comment by Shelly — October 25, 2005 @ 9:04 pm
:-) Thus?
Comment by prettyold — October 25, 2005 @ 9:08 pm
Didn’t work for me ,Shelly.
Comment by prettyold — October 25, 2005 @ 9:09 pm
I don’t know what to say, it’s worked for me the few times I’ve tried it.
Comment by Shelly — October 25, 2005 @ 9:18 pm
Maybe type it at the end of a comment? (I’m really the last person you want troubleshooting technology questions.)
Comment by Shelly — October 25, 2005 @ 9:20 pm
Well now I feel left out….Beerme! I started the melee today by not ignoring bobo. I was going to apologize to everyone for not taking my own advice about not feeding the trolls. I’m blaming mentalpause…hotflashes, whatever..somedays I’m just not able to keep my mouth shut! Wouldn’t want to stuff all that garbage for too long! Anyway, I thought my link to the brave Marine and his fickle fingered salute to his would-be murderers deserved a pat on the back.
Comment by upnorthlurkin — October 25, 2005 @ 9:31 pm
Ooo, it worked! :-~
My smiley I mean! Bobo rarely posts on his own time….and he thinks the National Guard (to which his daughter belongs) is merely a college scholarship program. His youngest daughter is still in highschool, but I believe he said she’s already signed up too.
Comment by upnorthlurkin — October 25, 2005 @ 9:36 pm
Maybe Camojack will enlighten us?
Comment by Shelly — October 25, 2005 @ 9:04 pm
As someone pointed out already, put your cursor over the smiley you wish to reproduce, and all shall be revealed.
BienHoaBaby…think you can behave yourself now?!
Comment by camojack — October 25, 2005 @ 10:12 pm
UpNorth, right there with ya. Keep thinking exposing trolls to reality will actually expose them to reality. I am going to try to avoid even reading his posts. I know what they’ll say anyway. Camo, I’ll bite….
Comment by Shelly — October 25, 2005 @ 10:28 pm
Comment by Just the Facts, Mam — October 25, 2005 @ 11:11 pm
Wow, I got through all the registeration fal-d-ral and changed my password two times, after I fogot it three times, and now I can make a smiley face! Ain’t life grand. Mr. Scott SIR. Thank you. I basically lurk…but it is go wonderuous to again see the squabblin on scrabble. Haven’t had so much fun since the old man sitting next to me at the senior center wet his pants.
I’LL BE BACK
Comment by Just the Facts, Mam — October 25, 2005 @ 11:14 pm
extra g for “lie-er” actual word was so…
Comment by Just the Facts, Mam — October 25, 2005 @ 11:16 pm
Upnorthlurkin,
Sorry, you deserved kudos too! I knew I would miss an obvious worthy
Anyway, for ably pointing out the obvious to the oblivious, you have shown great patience and civility.
Comment by Beerme — October 26, 2005 @ 6:03 am
Camojack: still trying to play the enforcer?
Comment by BienHoaBaby — October 26, 2005 @ 10:29 am
I’ll take that as a “no”.
Comment by camojack — October 26, 2005 @ 6:23 pm
Take it any way you like
Comment by BienHoaBaby — October 27, 2005 @ 8:36 am
Yeah, sure. Just try not to embarrass yourself again…
Comment by camojack — October 27, 2005 @ 8:23 pm
You just can’t leave it alone can you? I must have really struck a nerve. Feeling guilty about your prejudice? Go pick on someone else, this monkey ain’t buying what your selling.
Comment by BienHoaBaby — October 28, 2005 @ 8:41 am
At least you admit to being a monkey. I suppose you’ve conveniently forgotten all the vile things you said about me and mine.
Guilty about my prejudice? It isn’t prejudice when it’s based in facts. Let’s discuss pedophilia and Catholic priests, shall we? Of course, you’re probably in denial about how the Catholic church covered that up for years…
Comment by camojack — October 28, 2005 @ 5:32 pm
Short people got no reason
Short people got no reason
Short people got no reason
To live
They got little hands
And little eyes
And they walk around
Tellin’ great big lies
They got little noses
And tiny little teeth
They wear platform shoes
On their nasty little feet
Well, I don’t want no short people
Don’t want no short people
Don’t want no short people
Round here
Short people got nobody
Short people got nobody
Short people got nobody
To love
They got little baby legs
And they stand so low
You got to pick ‘em up
Just to say hello
They got little cars
That got beep, beep, beep
They got little voices
Goin’ peep, peep, peep
They got grubby little fingers
And dirty little minds
They’re gonna get you every time
Well, I don’t want no short people
Don’t want no short people
Don’t want no short people
‘Round here
Comment by FastEddy — October 29, 2005 @ 10:04 am
Camojack: give it up. Both our houses have been dirtied by bad “men” in the church. Since Judas set the precedent of bad “men” in the church, not much has changed. It shouldn’t detract from the good works that good men do in all churches.
Comment by BienHoaBaby — November 1, 2005 @ 2:40 pm
OK, Google Lutheran Ministers + sexual abuse
361,000 hits.
Comment by BienHoaBaby — November 1, 2005 @ 3:18 pm