(2006-10-02) — White House sources today said that President George Bush, under increasing pressure to ‘win the peace’ in Iraq, will fire embattled Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, and nominate Washington Post reporter Bob Woodward as his replacement.
The unnamed sources said the president made the decision after reading Mr. Woodward’s new book “State of Denial.”
“It’s clear that Bob Woodward gets more solid information from people at the Pentagon, State Department, National Security Council and White House than Rumsfeld does,” said one anonymous official. “Rummy and Bush are arrogant and work in a vacuum which leads to bad decisions. Everybody talks to Woodward, plus he’s humble and nobody has a better grasp on what would have worked in a given situation.”
Mr. Woodward declined to comment for the record, but unnamed associates said the venerated journalist would “jump at the chance to use his fabled powers of hindsight to lead the Pentagon. Plus it would allow him to work more closely with all of his unnamed friends in the top echelons of government.”
Bob Woodward is best-known for a series of anonymously-sourced articles he wrote with Carl Bernstein more than three decades ago that resulted in a movie starring Robert Redford and Dustin Hoffman.
97 responses so far ↓
1 JamesonLewis3rd // Oct 2, 2006 at 8:37 am
God Bless America!
2 SeaDog // Oct 2, 2006 at 8:47 am
God HELP America!
3 boberinagain // Oct 2, 2006 at 8:51 am
The Republicans fixing their steely gaze on Democrats and asking “what is your plan for getting us out of this mess?” is comparable to 2 people standing at the edge of a cliff and one declaring “I’m going to jump” and the other saying “I think that’s a bad idea unless you have a parachute”.
The first one grins, insists he has a parachute and he jumps. 1/2 way down he realizes there is no chute and looks up and the person still standing on the cliff and asks “how do you suggest “we” get out of this now?” and being surprised when an answer is not forthcoming.
Good one Scott, too bad it’s not a real story as I’m certain that nearly any change would be an improvement but I’m nearly as certain that one isn’t coming.
Morning folks
4 Old War Dogs // Oct 2, 2006 at 8:53 am
Bill’s Bites — 2006.10.02
The webmaster’s blog-within-a-blog. Continuously updated, newest items at the top. Please click here to learn more about The Phoenix Project, then click here to see a selection of Old War Dogs merchandise. All sales proceeds go to support The Phoenix
5 gafisher // Oct 2, 2006 at 9:21 am
I doubt Woodward will accept. He’s been approached by a number of NFL teams, each believing his fabled “Monday Morning Quarterbacking” skills could turn Monday Night Football around, while dozens of now-defunct internet-based companies have hounded him for advice on how to avoid the mistakes they’ve already made. In each case Woodward has politely but firmly declined, explaining that he’s putting all his energy into an upcoming event he refers to simply as “The Creation.”
6 red satellites // Oct 2, 2006 at 9:22 am
Good morning Scrapplers…
Of course here in LA and all of California it’s…Buenos Dios Scrappleros.
7 JamesonLewis3rd // Oct 2, 2006 at 9:24 am
Until I read the article linked to above I’ve been ambivalent toward Bob Woodward. I can’t say that anymore.
I am quite impressed by Woodward’s ability to unerringly read the hearts and minds of those he writes about-speaking for them and revealing their thoughts and motives. I am also impressed that he believes the President of the USA should not only agree with all advice that comes his way but succumb and adhere to it at all costs.
What an unbelievably (well, maybe not so unbelievable, considering) disgusting, low-life, self-righteous, pseudo-intellectual hack.
This morning I caught a very short clip of Woodward’s outrageously pathetic slam on something Kissinger said about winning the war on terror suggesting that Kissinger was, somehow, a pitiful, deluded moron. I could have exploded at the venomous, condescending tone of Woodward’s voice.
I’m saving an especially large mouthful of saliva, just in case I ever run into Woodward. Although, now as I type this, I’m wondering if that might not be a waste of perfectly good spit-do I really want to defile my spit in such a way. Maybe.
8 onlineanalyst // Oct 2, 2006 at 10:14 am
Will Woodward learn of this nomination from “unnamed sources,” “an anonymous official,” “unnamed associates,” “unnamed friends in the top echelons of government,” and “anonymously sourced articles”? He appears to trust the word of those in the shadows who have no accountability for their actions.
My oh my, the Lefties do really fear Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Rove, for they do not suffer fools gladly.
9 onlineanalyst // Oct 2, 2006 at 10:16 am
Oh, and as always—Great job, Maestro Ott! Subtly on target in sifting the wheat from the chaff in daily news spin.
10 Just Ranting // Oct 2, 2006 at 10:18 am
boberinagin re:3
Your analogy is so far off it is ludicrous.
Whether you agree or not, the Dimocrats are not left standing at the top of the cliff as lone survivors. We are one country, and one target for terrorists. Clinton’s 8 years of appeasement and looking the other way did not lessen their resolve, it emboldened them.
It amazes me that no matter how successful our military is, liberals can never see there are times when war in the face of irrepresible evil is needed. Our military has made great strides in Afghanistan and Iraq. Elections have been held in both countries, and they are in the process of establishing democracies as befit their place and culture. They are begining to transition national security and policing to Iraq and Afghan citizens.
Our GI’s and companies like the “evil” Halliburton are rebuilding the infrastructure and national security in both countries. Water flows and electricity is turned on. Hospitals and schools are being rebuilt, and even young girls are being offered a chance to learn.
No, neither country is stable yet. History proves that this is to be expected. There were still pockets of Nazi resistence after WWII, and bedraggled Japanese soldiers we still taking pot shots at American soldiers on Pacific Islands well into the 1950’s.
America today is asked to sacrifice far less than the WWII generation did to secure our freedoms. Our economy still thrives, gas flows, and staples are still in great supply. Yet the threat we face today is as great as that which they faced, and far more incidious. We are not battling nations but a fundamentally brutal fanatical religious movement that wants total world domination. They have shown they are willing to slaughter innocent peoples to advance their totalitarian and imperialistic cause. You can not negotiate with a movements whose declared creed is to murder you.
America did not ask for this fight. It was provoked many times during the 1990’s. The war was brought to our shores in 2001. America has the exhausted its diplomats trying to broker a means to a lasting peace in this region for decades, to no avail. America has the means to end this movement, and the moral grounds on which to wage this war. The question is did the children of America’s Greatest Generation inherit the stones to see this through? Do we value our freedom as much as they did?
After 9/11 a farmer who lives in our area wrote on the side of his barn, “They want to dance? Let’s dance!” Our military has shown they can dance with the best of them. The least the rest of us can do is pay the fiddler until the dance is done.
God bless President Bush for his steadfast leadership of a country with a short attention span.
God rest the souls of the innocent victims of terrorist attacks, and those who died to avenge them.
God bless the men and women who saw the devestation of 9/11 and knew they could not let the assualt on their country go unanswered.
May God forgive those who choose to forget their sacrifices, because I don’t think I ever could.
11 Shelly // Oct 2, 2006 at 10:31 am
Just Ranting, well said! You have to understand, facts don’t matter to Boberin. Many here have repeatedly pointed out reality to him, and he continues to deny its existence. When Islamofascists repeatedly scream “Death to America” and burn our flags, he seems to think its just a little schtick they play at. If we had only ignored them they would have gone away.
12 upnorthlurkin // Oct 2, 2006 at 10:32 am
Just Ranting - Amen! Well said. As you know, Bob, in his infinite wisdom is an apologist for the US as is typical of the elitist leftist mentality. Even though you can prove over and over historically that appeasement doesn’t work, has NEVER worked, they still want to give it another try. Don’t think any of them inherited the stones!
13 Shelly // Oct 2, 2006 at 10:34 am
Back on topic (slightly) at least Woodward does seem to have a fair capacity to look back at what happened and see what happened. Then spin it into that famous game of “what you should have done.” I haven’t and won’t read the book, but I’d guess it’s like all other liberal offerings on the subject - all complaints and no suggestions. Look back, look back, always look back.
14 upnorthlurkin // Oct 2, 2006 at 10:36 am
Shelly, we just have to be sisters!!
15 R.A.M. // Oct 2, 2006 at 10:43 am
Woodward would be a better fit for US Ambassader to the UN, now that that spot needs filling.
He would fit right in with the, “I know EVERYTHING, you know the rest!”, scum-sucking bunch that are already there.
16 Shelly // Oct 2, 2006 at 10:52 am
JR and UNL, Boberin’s position is illustrated today by Cox and Forkum:
http://www.coxandforkum.com/
UNL, sisters in Christ, sister Americans, sisters indeed.
17 onlineanalyst // Oct 2, 2006 at 11:33 am
Take a look at this thread from Powerlineblog, which was up yesterday, pointing out with links how pathetic Woodward is. Way to go, Bob Woodward. Hindsight is the best sight, especially when your sources can’t come out into broad daylight?
Maybe Woodward thinks that Wes Clark (Ashley Wilkes) is the man for the job. Wes certainly thinks so. Feh!
18 GnuCarSmell // Oct 2, 2006 at 11:44 am
It looks to me like Bob Woodward is taking ‘literary flair’ lessons from Joe Wilson (alias Mr. Valerie Plame).
19 Darthmeister // Oct 2, 2006 at 12:09 pm
Has anyone else noticed how Woodward always makes his money at the expense of other people? With his latest release, Woodward is demonstrating that he is a cunning liar himself.
I prefer this story, boberin.
A Democrat and Republican are looking across a chasm. they both see the need to cross to the other side. The Republican says we must build a bridge to cross to the other side so that others may follow behind. The Democrat at first questions such a project but then signs off on the idea. So the Democrat and Republican begin laying the footings for the bridge but when they run into the difficulties that always occur in such projects the Democrat takes a break to consult with those who don’t believe in building bridges.
The Republican continues working and then asks the Democrat for help. Democrat sniffs, begins engaging in constant criticisms of the Republican telling him how ill-advised the whole project was and then calls him a liar and condemns the Republican for even suggesting they build a bridge in the first place. Though it takes longer than at first expected, the bridge gets built and then the Democrat wants to put his name on the bridge, too.
Alternative ending: Democrat sees the finished bridge and then laments it will probably fall down within their lifetime and that the Republican still lied.
20 JamesonLewis3rd // Oct 2, 2006 at 12:36 pm
Oh, how I wish I could afford $22.99!
21 boberinagain // Oct 2, 2006 at 12:48 pm
I said nothing of appeasment any y’all know it. Perhaps if there had been an actual post war plan (parachute) things may well be different. But there wasn’t, if fact, the notion that one was needed was scoffed at in some circles.
If Rummy had listened to advice either before or nearly anytime since, things could well have gone better but he didn’t, they didn’t and he isn’t about to. That’s why he needs to go.
We shouldn’t be there, Iraq was not the target, might be now but wasn’t and again, ya’ll know it. If you didn’t then you do now. To say otherwise is ludicrous
22 puzzletop // Oct 2, 2006 at 12:52 pm
His fabled powers of hindsight and his working with un-named sources. LOL classic! Scott.
23 Shelly // Oct 2, 2006 at 1:11 pm
I wasn’t aware Boberin was in on the pre-war or post-war meetings. The rest of us weren’t so you’ll have to excuse us for not “knowing” what Rumsfeld was told, and believing that those who claim to and simultaneously call for him to resign or be fired may be a tad biased. Just because someone printed something doesn’t make it true.
24 GnuCarSmell // Oct 2, 2006 at 1:32 pm
Credible sources who ask to remain anonymous have told me that Woodward’s book is ‘well-composted soil additive’.
25 Shelly // Oct 2, 2006 at 1:39 pm
GCS, make sure conserve-a-tip hears about that, I believe she enjoys gardening.
26 R.A.M. // Oct 2, 2006 at 1:40 pm
Darth: re#19—GREAT anology. I would only add that the Dims would also want to name the bridge, The Ted Kennedy Bridge. I think we SHOULD replace Lincoln on the penny with Jimmy Carter as soon as he dies. It would be fitting and descibe his legacy perfectly, as it costs the US Mint 1.3 cents to make a penny today.
boberin: re #3, I’m STILL trying to decipher your analogy. If your still looking for work, try moveon.org or George Soros.
You probably make sense to them. The Dims DID back the President to go into Iraq, and to deny that is just plain lying!
27 Maggie // Oct 2, 2006 at 1:41 pm
Just Ranting re # 10,
Great rant…..it brought tears to my eyes
.
Last night I watched Ollie North’s ‘War Stories’ on Fox News.The program focused on baseball players who served our country in the WWII as Marines,Naval pilots etc. Men like Joe DeMaggio(sp?)and his brother, Ted Williams,Bob Feller and many more.To a man, they said they would do it again and felt it was their duty.
Bob Woodward brings to mind the song ‘Old Hippie’.
Santini….got any ideas?
28 Shelly // Oct 2, 2006 at 2:08 pm
Maggie, I caught part of that. I was amazed to hear about Yogi Berra and his older brothers.
Still OT, I popped back onto the site to say that we all need to start praying for the Amish community in PA. There was a tragic school shooting, and so far six have died. I can’t imagine the effect of this on any community, but the Amish are such a peaceful one that this is sure to be unbelievably devastating.
29 Darthmeister // Oct 2, 2006 at 3:04 pm
I wonder what FDR’s post-war plans for Germany, Italy and Japan was? Oh, that’s right, he didn’t have one, just the defeat of the enemies of America. I guess it helps when the people you defeat are generally people who aren’t by inclination murderous thugs weaned on a radical religion of hate.
If there was a miscalculation, therein lies the miscalculation, trying to take a minimalist military approach to quelling Muslim radicalism. And what must one do when confronted with someone wedded to an ideology of hate (i.e. Nazism, Islamofascism, communisms)? One way or another such radicalism must be utterly defeated lest the enemy be emboldened by your lack of resolve.
I still maintain we won the war against Saddam’s regime in less than a month. After that point the war segued into a war against an insurgency consisting of al Qaeda, the Fedayeen and remnants of the Sunni loyalists. This made Iraq another battlefield for America’s fight against jihadism … and better there than here in America.
Now the war against the insurgency has essentially been won. Even the Sunni Iraqis now despise the foreign terrorists in their midst. Presently we’re seeing a sectarian violence flare up. ALL OF THESE MODALITIES ARE A RESULT OF THE RADICALISM OF THE RELIGION IN WHICH THESE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN THOROUGHLY BRAINWASHED. How else to understand this other than the simplistic bleating about American not winning the war in Iraq, which isn’t a valid analysis anyway since we’re fighting an entirely different kind of war against budding jihadists and therefore some definitions no longer apply. In one sense its impossible to say whether the war has been or is being lost or if its being won for that matter (which it appears we are doing by first disrupting al Qaeda and establishing very real military bridgeheads in Afghanistan and Iraq). But its a war that must be fought because we’re taking out true evildoers whether it be a war against Saddam’s regime, an insurgency or sectarians, it involves radical Muslim Arabs.
The only way we can lose this war is for the American people to lose their nerve or will in seeing this war against the jihadists’ desire to establish a global Islamic caliphate to its completion. So the question for you boberin, given that this is a global war that must be won against jihadists, are you on board or are you going to stand on the sidelines and point fingers. Other than cut-and-run, what’s your prescription for victory, bober? Appeasement, pushing this off onto the next generation, or merely hoping this whole thing will blow over as just one big misunderstanding? John Kerry won’t tell us his plan for victory, nor any other DemDonk for that matter. So tell us your plan. You’ve taken your cheap shots so now its time for you to pony up since you think you have all the answers.
30 JamesonLewis3rd // Oct 2, 2006 at 3:18 pm
Sorta OT:
Weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth in Mexico over meanie President Bush building a fence to keep out their criminals and parasitic moochers (not to mention various and sundry terrorists).
31 Godfrey // Oct 2, 2006 at 4:40 pm
On that “other” topic of the day, Joe Scarborough had a great point about Senator Foley’s page-pettin’ peccadillos.
Foley- failed to control proclivity for strapping young lads. Guilty.
Hastert/GOP leadership- knew about and ignored said proclivity for strapping young lads. Guilty.
But what about whatever (presumably Democrat) political operatives leaked them after a year? They sat on them for a very long time, waiting for the most opportune political moment…just before the elections.
During that year, because of this desire for poltical gain, they allowed other kids to be exposed to Foley. Therefore, guilty.
Welcome to the glass House.
32 Godfrey // Oct 2, 2006 at 4:42 pm
Correction: Representative Foley.
33 camojack // Oct 2, 2006 at 4:45 pm
The unnamed sources said White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card made the recommendation to the president after reading Mr. Woodward’s new book “State of Denial.â€
Typical clueless media type; Denial isn’t a State…it’s a river in Egypt.
(And other African countries)
Godfrey:
Excellent point. Nice alliteration, too…
34 Beerme // Oct 2, 2006 at 5:38 pm
I may become clear, after the investigation Nan is pushing, that some Democrats did hold back the contents of the Instant Messages (which were apparently far more sleazy than the emails, Hastert and company had knowledge of), in order to keep Foley on the ballot for November. If so, that would be a fine turn of events for the Dems…
Supposedly a George Soros-funded internet site had knowledge of the content of the IMs rather early in the game…
35 Beerme // Oct 2, 2006 at 5:40 pm
Make that first word “It”, as it is clear that I
“I” will never be…clear, that is…
36 Darthmeister // Oct 2, 2006 at 6:10 pm
Godfrey, there is an important nuance in the Foley case which the lamestream media is glossing over.
Apparently Hastert and others did know Foley was a homosexual but didn’t want to fall into the stereotype of homosexuals having a soft spot for young boys. Now according to Hastert and other Republican leaders, and I’m giving them the benefit of a doubt for now, what they saw were some rather benign emails that could have certain sexual overtones read into them. For example: “I would like to have a picture of you” because ” I would like to have a provocative picture of you dressed in leather.”
Now this is important. Hastert said he and other Republicans never saw the Instant Messages that were sent by Foley to other males pages … there were more than one that were involved and the lamestream media continues blurring them all together and making it appear the one 16 year old page was the recipient of all those IMs. Those IMs were far more suggestive and indeed appear to be soliciting a more intimate relationship.
Now that Hastert has written a request for an official FBI investigation into the trail and origin of said IMs, it may be the case that there is a Democratic operative or some kind of collusion between one or several male pages to copy those IMs and use them at a later date to embarass Mr. Foley and the Republican Party. This investigation may also produce an answer as to why it was right before the elections that these emails and IMs are all of a sudden front page news.
What Mr. Foley did is indefensible and apparently he knows that he has made a terrible mistake. But I think there is far more to this story than what the lamestream media is willing to admit right now and it would be interesting if this disgusting episode isn’t being used by the Democrats as just another means to advance their politics of personal destruction. It will be interesting to see how the worm turns in this particular case.
What I find most fascinating is how in general, when Republicans are disgraced or if there is a taint of wrong doing, they generally resign or relinquish their influence positions in Congress even if what that did isn’t necessarily illegal. On the other, there is a general pattern among Democrats to bluster, cover-up and in some cases simply refuse to resign despite the fact they may latter be found guilty in a court of law. Right now William Jefferson (D-Moon) is one such example, in his case taking a bribe of $100,000.
Here is a collection of Congressional sex scandals with pages or underaged teens. I see the same pattern in these examples, too.
37 The Great Santini // Oct 2, 2006 at 6:10 pm
Hi, I’m Bob Woodward. I’m not a journalist, but I play one on TV.
I proved that by my scintillating performance last night on the SeeBS’s “60 Spin-its”, where I hyped “State of Lib Bile” my latest tell-all fauxumentary. It features my neo-projectionist writing style, straight from my navel-gazing and nether blowhole, and boasts a foreword by Kitty Kelley and a Postscript by Michael Moore. My SeeBS colleagues and I share the same motto: “A good lie, well told, always beats the truth!” Buy it now at any Yarns and Fableâ„¢ bookstore.
I can say and write anything I want, and no one can refute it, because (1) it’s all unattributed, so it’s immune from fact-checking; (2) it’s always Softballs for Lefties Night on “60 Spin-its”, especially for A Player like me; and (3) I’m only writing and saying what the “Spin-its” pundits and audience want to hear and believe, anyway. So eat your hearts out, all you right-wing pajama bloggers, nanner-nanner! Greed is good!
And don’t miss my next blockbuster docu-fantasy, which yarnicles more inside-the-beltway shenanigans. It’s entitled “Boobs, Botoxâ„¢, and Bombast: The Katie Couric/Jean-Francois Kerriere/Hillary Clinton Menage a Trois“. I just tell it like I project it to be!
Advance copies of the tentative proofs of “BBâ„¢ &B” are available now, for a $1,000-minimum donation to the DNC. Or you can call 1-800-FAN-TASY, or beam me up on the web at http://www.guttersnipes.R.us.com. Get it up yours today!
38 GnuCarSmell // Oct 2, 2006 at 6:19 pm
Donald Rumsfeld has released a new book about gossipy Washington insiders, “Tortured Facts: They Don’t Need Waterboards”.
39 Beerme // Oct 2, 2006 at 6:22 pm
Bwhahaha!
Nice job Bob, er TGS!
I wonder if a Deep Throat is involved in “B, B &B”? If so, I can’t imagine which of the main characters would fit the bill.
40 Beerme // Oct 2, 2006 at 6:23 pm
er, make that fit the Bill…
41 Beerme // Oct 2, 2006 at 6:23 pm
[ahem]
42 prettyold // Oct 2, 2006 at 6:28 pm
Where did Oliver Stone go to school?
““It’s a waste of energy away from things that do matter which is poverty, death, disease, the planet itself and fixing things in our own homes rather than fighting wars with others. “
Please someone diagram this sentence for me.I get so caught up in his ignorance ,I lose sight of his stupidity.
And he is an expert on war and terrorism ,how?
43 Beerme // Oct 2, 2006 at 6:45 pm
prettyold,
“And he is an expert on war and terrorism, how?”
No but heplays one on TV…
44 onlineanalyst // Oct 2, 2006 at 6:48 pm
Hahahahahahah….(gasp, gasp) hahahahaha!!!!
Santini, that was the best laugh that I have had all day.
Godfrey: The glass House comment is most apropos.
If CREW had possession of those IMs and did not pursue the charges against Foley at the time of their receipt, it seems to me that they are complicitly guilty of a crime of omission and that they further compromised the safety of other pages in Congress.
45 Darthmeister // Oct 2, 2006 at 7:00 pm
Hey, Great Santini, whenever I hear Bob Woodward’s name I immediately think of the Rocky & Bullwinkle Show and their Fractured Fairy Tales segment.
46 Hawkeye // Oct 2, 2006 at 7:48 pm
Sorry to get here late, but GREAT as always Scott. Bravo to the Meister!
47 Hawkeye // Oct 2, 2006 at 7:54 pm
Santini,
EXCELLENT!
48 Godfrey // Oct 2, 2006 at 7:55 pm
Hank: Interesting link!
But I think you’re looking at your party through rose-colored glasses a bit when you say “when Republicans are disgraced…they generally resign…”
On that page you linked to (thx, btw…it was very interesting in a head-scratchin’ sort of way) Bauman, Evans, Crane, Konnyu, Lukens and Stangeland were all Republicans. All of them had to be forced out.
Packwood did resign, but only after a few years and multiple allegations. And Hinson…well, I don’t even want to know what that thing he was charged with means, but he was arrested for doing it in the House bathroom…then he resigned.
I think powerful people want to hold onto power at all costs…and I think it goes for both parties.
I’d also like to note that not one Libertarian congressman or president has ever been caugt in a major scandal.
49 Hawkeye // Oct 2, 2006 at 7:57 pm
Bob Woodward has plenty of “hindsight” because he’s pretty close to the “hind end”… as they say.
50 onlineanalyst // Oct 2, 2006 at 8:18 pm
Totally OT unless we see the connection between our national security and our ports, especially after the Dubai Ports World brouhaha: Congress zilched DeMint’s legislation to prevent felons from working at our ports because of union pressure on legislators to oppose the bill. “On the Waterfront” lives… and makes us vulnerable to terrorist smuggling through the potential assistance of the criminal element working in our ports.
This bit of news is chilling in re to our port security:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110009027
51 The Great Santini // Oct 2, 2006 at 8:28 pm
Beerme:
Who needs Deep Throat? Woodward simply fabricates all the news that’s fit to be fabricated.
[Fresh from their gut-wrenching, kick-me loss to the Notre Dame Fighting Quakers, the Michigan State Tomato Cartons have lapsed into their annual mid-season swoon, losing to perennial Big Ten doormats the University of Illinois Fighting Vizzinis. Hoo, boy, what a stinkburger loss for the Spartans.
My Fighting Quakers covered themselves with glory, too, unveiling their patented "sieve" defense, which meekly surrendered 400+ yards passing to a very average Purdue Doilymakers team. The Quakers play the utterly horrible Stanford Cardinal at South Bend this Saturday, but, with ND staying in the "sieve", no lead is safe!]
OLA:
I’m glad you got some guffaws out of the Woodward rip. It proves that places your Dignity Quotient far exceeds mine, but I wouldn’t brag. That merely places you in a very large subuniverse of persons.
Darth:
Rocky and Bullwinkleâ„¢, one of my all-time favorite shows! Before each of his writing sessions for “State of Lib Bile”, Woodward held a seance with the nether world, calling upon his sources like Bullwinkle: “Eenie-weenie, chili-beanie, the spirits are about to speak! Speak, spirits, speak!”
[Sorry for the crack I made to Beerme earlier in this post at the football status of the Fighting Illini. But they were winless before the MSU game, and it was played at East Lansing before many members of MSU's 1966 juggernaut football team. That made the last-second loss particularly embarrassing for them.]
§[:-)]
52 JamesonLewis3rd // Oct 2, 2006 at 8:40 pm
Is it a political or moral campaign that motivates the Time-Release Bombshellsâ„¢?
Who’s been sitting on this stuff all this time, that’s what I’d like to know. I mean, the IMs were sent in 2003!
53 JamesonLewis3rd // Oct 2, 2006 at 8:48 pm
I’m a felon.
Just thought I’d toss that out there…..
54 Hawkeye // Oct 2, 2006 at 8:58 pm
JL3,
I’m SHOCKED!
Best regards…
55 Darthmeister // Oct 2, 2006 at 9:20 pm
Santini
The Illini may have beaten Michigan State but they still suck. The Illini should win against Indiana given that they are riding high and the Hoosiers got waxed this last weekend, but Illini vs. Ohio State …. buwahahahahahaha! Ohio State by 28 points.
Godfrey
Yeah, you’re right about some those gentlemen, but lately the Republicans have been relinquishing committee seats or their Congressional seats just on the appearance of wrongdoing. I’m thinking Tom DeLay and Newt Gingrich, both appear to be victims of political gotchya.
Strangeland, Evans, and Hinson may have been guilty of moral failure but I don’t believe they were convicted of any crime. So it’s a toss up whether they should have resigned or been forced out. The voters generally doing the latter, forcing them out. But I do agree that Bauman, Lukens and Packwood were unmitigated Republican jerks that were eventually found guilty of crimes and had to be forced out. But it is interesting observing the double standards of the voters and the House and Senate Democrats who embraced the scumbag Gerry Studds while Dan Crane is totally rejected by his constituents and his colleagues.
But my point still stands because if you look again you’ll not find a single Democrat who voluntarily resigned, even when the charges were made public and/or they were later found guilty or the electorate forced them out. They played it as long as they could and in many cases the Democratic electorate voted for them anyway … which says a lot about the moral values of the Democratic rank and file, emphasis on “rank”!
56 Godfrey // Oct 2, 2006 at 9:23 pm
Interesting video snippet starring John Walsh and Mark Foley.
Foley on pedophiles: “If I were one of these sickos…”
Ahem.
57 Darthmeister // Oct 2, 2006 at 9:31 pm
Also, I find it interesting that Representative Foley is a Republican in the first place. It seems to me he would have been more comfortable being a Democrat. Maybe he was a Republican because his daddy was, I don’t know. Too bad its a homosexual pervert giving Republicans a black-eye right now. I guess the liberals don’t see the irony of this.
One does have to wonder if Foley had been a Democrat and was receiving the kind of flack from Republicans that the DemDonks and the lamestream media are dishing out right now, wouldn’t you think we’d be hearing: “Yeah, Foley, did wrong and he’s sorry for what he did, but he didn’t actually have sex (that we know of) with those pages and besides, all you Repugs are a bunch of homophobes for piling on this poor guy who has already expressed remorse. And now look, you’ve so upset him he has to get help for the alcoholism that the Victorian attitudes of a bunch of Christian fundamentalist tightwads like you guys drove him to … blah, blah, blah.”
DemDonks are particularly viscious when it comes to ripping into log cabin Republicans. I guess its because the Donks feel like they were betrayed when the homosexual got off the reservation to become Republicans and somehow they are innoculated for charges of homophobia.
58 Darthmeister // Oct 2, 2006 at 9:33 pm
Godfrey, do we really know if Foley is a pedophile (someone who has sex with a pre-pubescent child) or even a pedorast (someone who has sex with a post-pubescent underaged teen)? He’s certainly sent some indefensible IMs to underaged pages, but we haven’t heard yet if he’s actually physically seduced them. I’m not defending this pervert but there has to be some precision of language here or the DemDonks are going to run roughshod over all this.
59 Godfrey // Oct 2, 2006 at 9:49 pm
Hank: But my point still stands…
Yeah…I also get the feeling (not necessarily supported by research of any sort) that it’s more common for GOP’ers to bow out gracefully than it is for the Dems. Sometimes that’s a bad thing, though. For example; if Bill Clinton had resigned after being impeached he would never have been able to prevent 9/11.
Wait. Bad example.
…lately the Republicans have been relinquishing committee seats or their Congressional seats just on the appearance of wrongdoing.
Seriously, though… I’m not so sure that’s necessarily a good thing. It’s “the honorable thing to do” and all, and it seems to be working out well for Newt (time will tell regarding DeLay). But it seems like it gives too much control to the scandalmeisters (no relation, I presume?) and perhaps even encourages them a bit.
Anyway, I think people get a little too up-in-arms when members of the opposing party (human beings, it turns out) slip up. If only morals were as plentiful in Washington as indignation.
60 everthink // Oct 2, 2006 at 10:05 pm
Woodward was in the Navy, but I guess he wasn’t a “Swiftboater”.
Was Foley the informer when Woodward helped take down “Tricky Dick�
The way this is going Nancy could be the first female president if the “Dims†(ha ha ha, tee hee hee) play it right.
Everthink?
61 everthink // Oct 2, 2006 at 10:12 pm
Darthmeister,
How is it you happen to know the definitions listed in #58. Is this knowledge required of Neo-Cons, (or other Cons)?
Just thought I’d ask.
ET
62 Godfrey // Oct 2, 2006 at 10:22 pm
Hank re: #58 - …do we really know if Foley is a pedophile (someone who has sex with a pre-pubescent child) or even a pedorast (someone who has sex with a post-pubescent underaged teen)?
In my view a pedophile is someone who “wants” to have sex with a kid. Whether they actually follow through with it is of course very important, but the distinction regarding the label “pedophile” seems to be in the attraction rather than in the action.
I have always been confused on what the term “pederast” actually means…I usually see it applied to ancient Sparta or something. It seems to have homosexual-only connotations. I think the more accurate term is “hebephile” when talking about people drawn to adolescents.
All social conventions aside there is an enormous difference in my mind between someone who is attracted to sixteen-year-olds and someone who is attracted to six-year-olds. Both instances are harmful to the child and are rightfully illegal, but one (I’m sure it’s obvious which) is pretty much the epitome of evil. The other seems more based on selfishness and moral bankruptcy. Even the legal system makes this distinction.
So in fairness even if Foley followed through with his urgres in some as-yet-unknown case he probably isn’t “technically” a pedophile, at least in the clinical sense.
That distinction would have been lost on voters, of course. In fact said voters might be the reason GOP’ers tend to bow out gracefully…even more than Democrats, they know that their base won’t put up with such behavior.
63 everthink // Oct 2, 2006 at 10:23 pm
Singing Santini,
Who needs Deep Throat? Woodward simply fabricates all the news that’s fit to be fabricated. Comment by The Great Santini — October 2, 2006 @ 8:28 pm
Now is the time for all state employee shysters to come to the aid of their party.
Why not get off your duff, and give it a shot.
(Yawn)
ET
64 Darthmeister // Oct 2, 2006 at 10:40 pm
I agree with #59 comments.
You’re making the Jesus argument, which isn’t a bad thing. “If you look upon a woman and lust after her, you’ve already committed adultery.”
Of course given the depravity of some people, they would thus “reason”, “Well heck, if I’m already guilty I may as well do it.”
But your point is well made and well taken, but I don’t think in a court of law Foley would be considered a pedophile or a pederast. The term pederast (I previously mispelt it, sorry) has different meanings but it’s been used by law enforcement to mean . But you’re right, voters, particularly conservative voters aren’t going to appreciate those distinctions come election time.
65 Darthmeister // Oct 2, 2006 at 10:41 pm
…but it’s been used by law enforcement to mean this.
Sorry, hyperlink messed up.
66 Godfrey // Oct 2, 2006 at 11:18 pm
“If you look upon a woman and lust after her, you’ve already committed adultery.â€
Actually I thought about this after I posted the above: it would probably be wrong to classify someone as “evil” who was merely attracted to children. It seems to me that the “evil” is in the action of molestation. In fact it could be argued that an inactive pedophile has sort of an odd “strength of character” in a way. Now I know that last sentence can easily be misread but I think you understand my drift. To have such ghastly impulses for the entire span of a life and never give in to them is certainly worthy of something.
Regardng Matthew 5:28 however, I have to disagree (big surprise, huh?). That declaration has always seemed a bit too “Thought Police” for me. I know there are religious aspects to this but from a practical aspect we only really have control over our actions, not our thoughts. In fact the very notion of building character is centered around the ability to avoid giving in to harmful temptation.
Of course there can be a wide range of meaning in the term “lust after her”… perhaps he was condemning the conscious entertainment of sexual fantasies rather than merely an unbidden thought.
But I still place far more relevance on the action.
67 JamesonLewis3rd // Oct 2, 2006 at 11:53 pm
The common understanding of Matthew 5:28 is that it is not the thought per se but dwelling upon it.
Young’s Literal Translation puts it thus: “…..looking on a woman to desire her…..”; the NIV: “…..looks at a woman lustfully…..”; KJV: “…..looketh on a woman to lust after her…..”; Amplifed: “…..so much as looks at a woman with evil desire for her…..”
I can look at a woman and admire her beauty but if I go beyond that I’ve crossed the line.
68 GnuCarSmell // Oct 2, 2006 at 11:58 pm
Tom Foley’s career may not be over. He could switch parties.
69 PanamaRed // Oct 3, 2006 at 12:04 am
Simply fascinating how Woodward can slip from one of the “Slayers of Nixon” to “PlameFaire” back to liberal icon with his new book and no one ever seems to question his motives, sources, bias or anything else about the man.
Should one really look at it though, reality bites!! Had I been in charge of the CIA, Woodward would have never spent another night alone. What better way to track down leakers than to follow the trail of mud left in their wake? As for the R vs D resigning, R’s are far more likely to see the writing on the wall than the D’s since liberals will forgive almost any sin as long as the reason given for doing it was “I hate Bush!”
As I said in a discussion with one of the aforementioned good hearted Bush Haters, had it been my son that had gotten text messages from the good congressman and not told me of the content, there would have been hell to pay on his side as well as the politicians. That the page seemed to more or less take what was said in stride and even answers some inquiries in what seems to be a rather blase` attitude is more reminiscent of adolesence and discussions of sex, attitudes and changes we were going through than homosexuality, pedophlia, etc. Where the major difference is the age differential between Page and Politician is that the politician cannot claim to be reliving part of his youth as someone who would have done the same with a 16 year old female since to do so only brings forth the aadmission that he was gay then as well as now, but then you were not allowed to be gay as is permitted in society today. He deserves therapy at least!
We allow our enemies a virtual invitation to come and kill us though inaction on our elected official’s parts, our legal system favors the criminal and God help a soldier who may err in the heat of battle! A report is released that says the number of terrorists has increased since we have been in Iraq, yet nowhere do I see that the number of communists increased in the USSR after Lenin came to power, but what would one expect? Woodward’s “State of Deniall” is simply the left in this country refusing to listen to or learn from history. If they had, they would know they will be the first ones shot and buried if this country ever falls to another power.
70 JamesonLewis3rd // Oct 3, 2006 at 12:14 am
It’s almost laughable, almost…..
Democrats Identify the Enemy:
“I think you’re seeing the beginning of an alternative Democratic approach,” a desire to strike back hard, said Mr. Begala, a former Clinton adviser.
“Clinton tapped into something in the Democratic zeitgeist,” Mr. Begala said. “We’re really tired of being bullied by Fox.”
71 PanamaRed // Oct 3, 2006 at 12:15 am
Godfrey: 66
I think the lust here has to be an actual action on a person’s part towards the other as you related. If we are creatures of Free will’, then not acting on a thought is as virtuous as not having the thought? “Leadeth me from temptation and deliver me from evil.”
72 Godfrey // Oct 3, 2006 at 12:19 am
JL3: Still seems a little like prior restraint if there is no action involved. The problem with “thought sin” as I see it is that it makes a lot of people feel unnecessarily guilty when they haven’t done anything against the nature God supposedly bestowed upon them.
GnuCar: Perhaps Foley could start his own party…how about the “Pedocrats”?
73 Godfrey // Oct 3, 2006 at 12:34 am
Panama: if we are creatures of Free will’, then not acting on a thought is as virtuous as not having the thought.
Well said. It should be more virtuous, in fact. I’d even go so far as to say that without free will there can be no virtue. And what is a lustful thought but an opportunity to exercise free will and therefore to practice virtue?
So even by Biblical standards it should be a good thing so long as it is resisted.
74 Effeminem // Oct 3, 2006 at 1:21 am
I always thought there was more leeway for a single man lusting after a single woman, in that lust leads to marriage and fruitful multiplication.
75 Effeminem // Oct 3, 2006 at 1:37 am
Golly, the original post isn’t even worth pushing through. Well.. Hey, if he dissed Henry Kissinger, I think me and Bob are gonna have to thrown down.
76 JamesonLewis3rd // Oct 3, 2006 at 1:48 am
Secular humanist interpretations and definitions do not apply to God’s Word.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.~~1Corinthians 2:14
77 Godfrey // Oct 3, 2006 at 2:18 am
Eff re: #74 - I always thought there was more leeway for a single man lusting after a single woman, in that lust leads to marriage and fruitful multiplication.
Actually that would be the *only* area where leeway could possibly apply since lust between two non-singles either means adultery or lust within the marriage. The first is covered elsewhere in the Bible and the second is, let’s face it, on a downhill slide from “I do” onward.
78 PanamaRed // Oct 3, 2006 at 2:28 am
And who is the one that must interpret what the word of God means, if not for the secular human? Then I can accept the admonition “Thou shalt not murder” as God’s word that I may defend myself, but that I cannot abort a child in the womb because “Ye suffer not the children” and a child in the womb cannot wish you harm?
One may take the Bible and quote it in the absolute sense with the strictest of interpretations, yet it still comes down to “Love one another as I have loved you.”
79 Effeminem // Oct 3, 2006 at 2:32 am
Shouldn’t you people be out drinking or something.. It’s a week night!
80 Darthmeister // Oct 3, 2006 at 8:34 am
Godfrey,
That’s the difference between God’s moral law and the law of man which is but a reflection of the divine. Though we may stand as sinners before God for not only acting upon our sinful impulses but also contemplating evil (not to be confused with momentary temptation, the Bible is nuanced about this plight of man), it has always been a principle of the Judeo-Christian understanding of law that in a human court a man is to be judged according to his work of evil since it was generally understood there is no human tribunal which can be erected that has the ability to read the mind (intentions) of man and rightly condemn him/her on that basis. That kind of tribunal would only lead to presumptious jurisprudence … or as you say, a thought police. I know I’m preaching to the choir here.
Which is why I find political correctness one of the most egregious forms of thought control ever divised by man and totally antithetical to the whole concept of freedom of thought. Under traditional American law we’ve always had this principle that government can’t condemn a man for thinking something, even if its evil, but rather only if he acts upon that thought. But then, I suppose, one can argue that speaking ones mind is an act (good or bad) based upon thought, therefore even speech can and should be punished. But that is a dangerous road to travel excepting in case of where threats of violence against a person (e.g. the POTUS, your neighbor) are being uttered.
81 Darthmeister // Oct 3, 2006 at 8:37 am
Effeminem: I drink therefore I am.
Thank you Mr. Descartes. [(~;]Å“
82 Darthmeister // Oct 3, 2006 at 8:51 am
Oh, to clarify a previous point even further (and I appreciate the discussions on this difficult issue). It is possible to look upon a woman and admire her for her industry and even her physical beauty (I think all women are beautiful … except for liberal Femi-Nazis) without sinning.
There is a fine line, to be sure, between admiration and lust. I think we know the difference in our heart. But we also must be mindful that there is such a thing as temptation, and that in itself is not wrong/sinful. It’s when we continue an obsessive contemplation (depending on a person it could be several seconds or several minutes) which causes us to become desirous of possibly taking action on that thought, now that’s the sin.* Of course actually engaging in the act is, too.
*for those seculars who get hinky about the word “sin”, substitute “wrong doing”.
83 JamesonLewis3rd // Oct 3, 2006 at 9:27 am
Why is it that when I read something like, “Afghan detainees launch legal challenge to US military commissions bill,” I begin to wonder if there aren’t too many lawyers out there who, perhaps due to their overpopulation, have too much time on their hands?
84 Libby Gone // Oct 3, 2006 at 9:48 am
Morning all!
85 Maggie // Oct 3, 2006 at 9:54 am
Good Morning Scrapplers,
Camojack,
Would you link us up with an email address where we might send words of sympathy and encouragement to the Amish community.
Such an evil act upon these precious and trusting little girls.May God give the families involved comfort and strength (including the innocent family of this local terrorist murderer.)
(btw Gr8 Santini……loved the feux news)
86 Maggie // Oct 3, 2006 at 10:19 am
Just listenening to a news conference in PA re the tragedy yesterday and the Amish communty is efusing any outside help at this point.
87 Maggie // Oct 3, 2006 at 10:21 am
correction…..refusing …..not efusing
88 SpeckBlog » Blog Archive » Bush Fires Rumsfeld // Oct 3, 2006 at 10:23 am
[...] ScrappleFace [...]
89 JamesonLewis3rd // Oct 3, 2006 at 10:33 am
I wonder if the Amish have Internet access, let alone Email.
My heart and prayers go out to them in this terrible time, especially for the children who will find this horrific invasion of their peaceful lives very, very hard to understand-surely, they will never be the same.
90 JamesonLewis3rd // Oct 3, 2006 at 10:49 am
OT:
How ’bout those Buckeyes!?!!!!!
Yee-HAW!!!!!
91 RedPepper // Oct 3, 2006 at 11:03 am
To show how far we have drifted from any sociological, not to mention theological moorings, consider these definitions from dictionary.com: “aberrant: departing from the right, normal, or usual course”; abhorrent: “causing repugnance; detestable; loathsome.”
Right? Normal? Detestable? People who mock such notions ask, “According to whom?”
Scandal? What Scandal?
92 Godfrey // Oct 3, 2006 at 12:34 pm
Top o’ the morning to ye, Scrappledom.
While I (of course) pity the Amish children, I can’t imagine what the shooter’s own three kids are going to have to wrestle with for the rest of their lives.
What a terribly thoughtless act on so many levels.
Hank re: #80 I find political correctness one of the most egregious forms of thought control ever divised.
Oh, agreed! Not only is PC unrealistic from a practical standpoint (creating a veneer of pseudo-acceptance to things that are obviously unworthy of acceptance, like urban prison/gang culture) it seems most harmful to me because it often stifles important truths. There are certain things, potentially important things, that can never be addressed due to fear of political incorrectness.
For instance, the statement “blacks tend to have lower scores on IQ tests than all of the other races” will bring no end of gasping and hand-wringing. It is, nonetheless, an undisputed fact that such is the case.
The perceived political incorrectness of the above statement precludes the problem it points out from ever being dealt with, even though it’s something that affects us all. Are the tests biased? Is it a cultural shortcoming among blacks? Is it due to a physical difference? Is there anything that can be done?
There is, in fact something that can be done (see the Flynn Effect). But it’s difficult to solve a problem most of society is unwilling to admit exists or even might exist. It’s the same things with other taboo topics, although the one above is usually the most volatile (which is why I chose it).
Political correctness amounts to mankind playing hide-and-seek with himself. You’d think we would have outgrown such nonsense.
93 GnuCarSmell // Oct 3, 2006 at 12:45 pm
Woodward was shunned by the effete left-wing crowd after he exposed Patrick Fitzgerald’s ‘CIA leak’ investigation for the fraud it was. He was expected to conceal the truth — like all good MSM hacks — if the truth helped Bush.
His new Bushwhacking book is Woodward’s ticket back to into the good graces of the intellectual ghetto in which he rightly belongs. It should surprise no one that his ’sources’ are unnamed and unverifiable.
94 The Great Santini // Oct 3, 2006 at 2:10 pm
Maggie:
Glad you enjoyed the Woodward rip.
But, gosh, AlwaysStink demurs (# 63). Given his self-proclaimed brilliance, I have concluded:
• Who cares?
• I must be on the right track.
95 RedPepper // Oct 3, 2006 at 2:11 pm
#92 Godfrey: Political correctness amounts to mankind playing hide-and-seek with himself.
I like how you put that, Godfrey.
There are levels of this phenomenon that are more insidious, though. Some people seem to yearn to actually implement George Orwell’s concept of thought-crime. Consider the recent eruptions over Pope Benedict’s remarks, which have now contributed to such recent grovelling as the cancellation of a Mozart opera performance in Germany. Or the lawsuit that was filed againt the late Orianna Fallaci. Or the world-wide “cartoon jihad”.
Nor is such faintness of heart confined to Europe. Here is an even more recent incident from the USA.
The skit included an announcer using a fake South Asia accent introducing contest categories such as “infamous infidels” and “potent portables,” according to the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations, which said it had received complaints about the skit.
The skit also included a threat to behead a female host when she got an answer wrong, CAIR said.
On Monday, the station’s Web site contained a short apology: “KDWB does not condone making light of Islam and Muslims. We regret that listeners found the Muslim Jeopardy comedy skit of one of our on-air hosts to be insensitive.”
Actual quote: “There is no fun in Islam.” - Ayatollah Khomeini.
No kidding.
96 JamesonLewis3rd // Oct 3, 2006 at 3:14 pm
Gym Attire Seen As Latest Attempt to Force Shari’a in US
97 camojack // Oct 3, 2006 at 4:56 pm
Camojack,
Would you link us up with an email address where we might send words of sympathy and encouragement to the Amish community.
Such an evil act upon these precious and trusting little girls.May God give the families involved comfort and strength (including the innocent family of this local terrorist murderer.)
Comment by Maggie — October 3, 2006 @ 9:54 am
The victims were Old Order Amish, who don’t use electricity, computers and a lot of other modern conveniences…so there’s no way to email them. An old-fashioned letter should work, though; the name of the town where it happened is Nickel Mines, PA. It’s got to be a pretty small one…
You must log in to post a comment.