At the rate we're going, it wouldn't surprise me none. The Brits are talking about yet another delay.

Yes, those pesky Jews insist on existing! What next?! Their own capital city in their own ancient homeland?!

Can the Arabs of Israel, as instant (circa 1964) "Palestinians" supplant the age-old narrative of the (wandering) Jews without UN "aid"?

O, what would dear ol' mufti say?

Chew on this one Frenchie. Congress, while still backbiting and infighting, will not forget to repay the French for the lack of support over Saddam and his atrocities.

Bovine blood? Yuk!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,80700,00.html

if the over/under line for the fireworks to begin is Friday this week than I'll take the under. It is time to stop the charade and rid the planet of Saddam and his ilk. Tuesday is standup and be counted day, Wednesday is get the hell outta Iraq day, and Thursday night Iraq gets lit up like the Christmas tree at Rock Center. God speed and good hunting to all those men and women in the US Military.

Wait... Does Saddam even know what justice and multi-national unity means?

Go to http://www.IPETITIONS.com, click on, citizens against celebrities pundits, and sign the petition! Tell the anti-war celebs, what WE think!

TO ALL THE SCRAPPLEFACE REGULARS
YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE BROTHERS AND SISTER
_______________________________

who I am does not matter

I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR SUPPORT
_______________________________

PSA ENCOURAGE OUR TROOPS WITH A COMMENT
_______________________________

BUT I REALLY WANT TO PUBLICALLY THANK SCOTT OTT
GOD BLESS YOU FOR RESPONDING SO FAST "SCOTT" TO A NEW-BE WITH AN AMERICAN HEART

YOU ALL SHOULD BE VERY VERY PROUD
GOD BLESS AMERICA
GOD BLESS SCRAPPLEFACE AND SCOTT OTT
GOD BLESS THE SCAPPLE REGULARS AND EVERYONE WHO POSTED

I've been reading your work/play for a few weeks now and have found it a reliable instrument for preserving sanity.

The laughter that ensues from reading your stuff reminds me of an earthquake. At first there is a boisterous eruption and then an ongoing aftershock of chuckles that generally last well into the night.

Your art is truly valuable. Thanks so much.

Hussein announced he'd give Hans Blix a personal tour of Iraq's biological and chemical weapons labs and depots, let nuclear scientists leave the country with their families and destroy all "modified" missiles and drones. "Now that the Americans and British are leaving, full disarmament will be our top priority," he said.

In addition, the ACLU and Human Rights Watch have been invited to tour all Iraqi prisons and advise on civil rights for political dissidents and their wives and children.

Interesting isn't it that the same low life that are working so damned hard to get Mr Saddam off the hook are the ones who are consistently so anti-Semitic. I guess they want the guy around in case one day he really does get the big one off against Tel Aviv. It's sweet how the UN system allows a third rate country like France with absolutely no bollocks whatsoever run world affairs lik this. How is it that this corrupt body of weasels somehow legitimises actions, morality emating from the collective ? Its the Borg, or should I say the Bourge !!

Hmm... I haven't gotten my demobilization order yet. Are you sure this is true?

(typing from the middle east)

Scott, you continue to amaze and amuse me like no one else today.

Good job.

Andrew McNab - Evil is evil, and it rarely deviates from it's natural path. Which also fortunately makes it surprisingly easy to spot.

I want members of the media to track how many American lives are lost in the Irag war from illegal French weapons systems sales, illegal parts supplying, etc. since the embargo was put into place.

Then I would like to see us extract justice for our fallen people and have the responsible french curs tried for war crimes. Along, of course, with the billion dollar law suits against the responsible french companies, which make Enron look like a posterchild for the Moral Majority.

I don't want the french economy to suffer. I want it to roll over and play dead. For a long, long time.

okie,

"illegal" French weapons by which law, by whos authority?

Remember, SAMs don't kill fighter pilots, SAM crews do...

To Jon

Dear Jon,

I must admit that I am snobishly presumptuous enough to be proud of being an overly educated Frenchman.

I sincerely think that I have above all a good knowlewdge in History (Egypt + Mesopotamia + Greek + Latin + judeo-christian culture mixed with as much as possible Asian African American (I mean before the Conquest ;) culture).

I sicerely think that this kind of old fashioned culture help me to live my life with more lucidity (associated alas with a less naive less moral and more cynical approach of life).

For those who did not do it yet, I strongly recommand them to read ASAP Thucydides (The History of the Peloponnesian War), Tacitus (The Annals) and Niccolo Macchiavelli (The Prince).

They then will be more capable to talk with Grown up persons.

Please Believe...

Frenchman -

you still have yet to answer the pressing question of illegal weapons sales by your country to Iraq AFTER your country signed resolution 1441.
Will you condemn these sales if they happened? Will you apologize to the ScrappleFace regulars for defending the un-defendable? Will you state that such sales are the high-water mark of treachery and that such sales would help Iraq in the coming battle?

btw, what are we suppossed to believe when you sign off 'please believe'?

It was about time Mr bush realised his mistakes.

By the way:
Do you know why France sold the Osirak nuclear power station to Sadam?

Because Westighouse failed to get the contract.

It's all about business.
I liked the Americans saying France should loose it's seat at the UN.
Yes: There should be only cofee Hanan and the Americans.
.Hanan would be the name of the cofee machine.

To Tom,

EVERY companies continued to sell as much as possible to SH after the beginning of the blocus (USA companies included).

There is no morality in Business.

Business is Business.

Please Believe...

Frenchman

Don't be prideful with any excellence that is not your own. (Epictetus)

Israel is a british & us invention. Those that lived there before (the palis) should have a right to defend their land, just as the IRA (which gratefully accepts large susidies from US citizens) do in Northern Ireland.

Who is this highly educated Frenchman with his quotations and his snidely superior attitude? Anyone with a Bartlett's and/or internet access can pepper his on-line conversations with erudite nuggets of wisdom from the minds and lips of History's greatest.
Arrogance is rarely an attractive trait. It is never more disdained when there isn't a shred of proof that it is warranted. M'seur Frenchman seems to have an abundance of time on his hands, time which might be better spent improving his grasp of reality by rappelling down the side of the ivory tower in which he seems to reside.

fat...

So since what you're saying is that there were no jews in Palestine prior to US and British involvement? So that they shouldn't have defended their land when the Arabic invasions happened?

That's some very thin ice you're running on, which I suppose is why you should be running quickly...

Frenchy:

I do not doubt the veracity and zeal of your thinking. Nor do I question your classical education. What I have an issue with is your lack of ability to critically analyze problems. It is as if you're caught in a vicious circle of your classical education, where nothing new can happen. Have you considered the possibility that you just might be wrong? And if so, what would you do then?

I'll give you 2 more minutes in the logic penalty box to ponder these questions.

To logicpenaltybox,

My interest in History is based on the belief that humans are basically the same everywhere in the world and have always been the same throughout history.

I think and believe that motivation for wars has always been Ruler's GREED for POWER hidden behind PROPAGANDA.

PROPAGANDA is needed because soldiers are honest sincere and need to be persuaded that they are going give their life for a JUST CAUSE.

About being right or wrong :
We have to define together on which specific matter one could be wrong and how we could define the criterias on which we would decide who is right and who is wrong.

This decided, If I were wrong, I would apologise publicly on this forum.

Frenchman

One must not be prideful with any excellence that is not one's own. (Epictetus) (I hope that this translation is better. This quotation is related to my poster about individual and collective pride shame and responsability.)

To Joseph,

Dear Joseph,

I must admit that I am sometimes overplaying my impersonation of the French arrogant intellectual. I am not (always) behaving that way in my real life.

Please consider that I am here on a Forum that could be considered without exageration as quite unpleasant and even sometimes nearly hostile towards me and my beloved country.

Sincerely,

Frenchman

One must not be prideful with any excellence that is not one's own. (Epictetus)

Tom "rid the planet of Saddam and his ilk"?
Perhaps you should start making the list. When you've bombed 50 or more countries, maybe we can all sleep quietly in our beds, and be thankful for all these stupid people we wiped off the planet. Bill

This just in -
A wire service press release early this morning announced that the location for the new "World Peace Council" (WPC) will be located in Houston, Texas near Bush International Airport. As the UN has become an irrelevant organization, the new WPC will oversee and police the world through a coalition of the "willing". This of course does not include membership for France, Germany, and Russia. The UN will continue to exist, as does NATO and several older institutions, but it is unclear as yet, to what their future purpose will be. If the UN is unable to continue to pay the rent with a now possible reduction in member countries, it is rumored they will move their organization to Nigeria, where offers have been made for tax free investment funding from several local government officials.

Frenchman,
It is great that you have received and education, but your studies have blinded you to the reality of the situation. If you truly understood history it would show you how the human race tends to repeat the same mistakes. By being a student of history you should understand the ramifications of ones actions or in this case inaction. By not making a stand, we are allowing a brutal dictator free reign to do whatever he pleases. When he does enough to anger a few countries all he has to do is play a waiting game knowing that a few other countries with biased beliefs will come to his rescue.

To be an educated person can be a good thing until you make yourself believe that something is right when it is really wrong. You may not know the pain of seeing your country under attack, but you must understand what we have been through and know that our anger is a righteous anger. I was able to spend a week at the WTC recovery effort and your vain repitions and your moral arrogance is just a spit in the face. I revile you and all that you stand for. You cannot understand, actually you are incapable of understanding what is right in this case. We are out to protect our way of life and we don't need you or Kofi Annan telling us what we should and shouldn't do. Resolution 1441 told Iraq to disarm IMMEDIATLY or face serious consequences. Those serious consequences is not sending over your god awful cheese, it means military strikes. If you all are to weak to enforce the resolution GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY AND LET REAL MEN DO THE JOB!

Sorry this is long, but I had to get a little of what I'm feeling of my chest. Thanks for letting me vent!

"As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure"
---Jacques Chirac, President of France

"As far as France is concerned, you're right."
---Rush Limbaugh,

"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me."

--- General George S. Patton

"The only time France wants us to go to war
is when the German Army is sitting in Paris sipping coffee."
--- Regis Philbin

"The last time the French asked for 'more proof' it came marching into Paris under a German flag."
---David Letterman

Given that France may have supplied weaponry and supplies in violation of UN sanctions, and is suspected of having supplied material to develop WMD's, solid proof on either ground would put France in violation of the Bush Doctrine, that the US is in opposition to all states who sanction, sponsor, or shelter terrorism.
The biggest nightmare Chirac and other frenchies have is of the US finding this proof.

Or maybe, just maybe, the state that last detonated a thermonuclear device in open ocean, in defiance of international outcry, has suddenly turned radically pacifist.

Nah.

Frenchman,

With your supposedly extensive education, I’m sure you recognize the following quote by Pope: “A little learning is a dangerous thing.”

Your Epictetus quote is an odd one, given that he is a man best known for sitting quietly while his infuriated master broke his leg, crippling him for the rest of his life. Epictetus’s stoic philosophy is ridiculously unrealistic, suggesting, for example, that we should feel no emotion at the death of our loved ones.

However, if you do want to draw upon Epictetus for inspiration, perhaps you should remember that he encouraged others to will themselves to change whatever was evil as long as it was in their power. It is in our power to change the brutal regime in Iraq, and we intend to change it.

I've read Thucydides, Tacitus and Machiavelli. I don't remember anything about the wisdom of giving a weaker enemy time to grow strong. Perhaps different conclusions may be drawn from a classical education.

As for Epictetus, isn't Frenchman basing his pride on the excellence of Thucydides, Tacitus, Machiavelli and the French nation?

Joanne Jacobs
If his pride is based on the their excellence and drawn only from a classical education we can say that his argument is outdated and lacking evidence in these modern times, right?

I think he just takes something and twists it to conform with his sense of reality or as we would see it, insanity!

The problem with Frenchman's illogic is that he entertains us to consider an opposing idea like he is pointing out from his educuated and cultured perspective an overlooked chink in the Armor. Like an embarrasing hole in your britches. Big deal fight on.

Conversely... If he dared to consider the conservative logic it's more like admitting there is a gaping hole in his hot air balloon. It simply doesn't fly. He is French Toast. Like the Emperors New Clothes. Eeeeek !! Run for cover.

How is it that France came to be? How is it that any nation comes to be?

OBSERVATION:

Posted by: Frenchman on March 7, 2003 09:32 AM
The chemical weapons used by SH against Iranians, Kurds Kuwaitis had been provided (sold) by the US.
SH probably promised not to use them !
I think that we really cannot trust him !
Posted by: Frenchman on March 7, 2003 09:32 AM
************************************************
SCUD MISSILES ARE RUSSIAN MADE

************************************************
The idea that one can invade Iraq to bring democracy and freedom is a confidence trick designed to draw westerners into providing legitimacy for old-fashioned conquest. They have been here before.
In the late 19th century, Christian missionaries provided countless factual accounts of the barbarities of the heathen in Africa which were used to justify intervention and, in the end, the conquest, exploitation and partition of the continent.
Posted by: Frenchman on March 7, 2003 11:34 AM
*************************************************
SPEAKING OF AFRICA AND THE 19th and 20th Century
An OCCUPATION BY FRANCE OF ALGERIA INDEED WELL INTO THE 1960s
IN THE LATE 1940s FRANCE HAD OCCUPIED MOST OF NORTHERN AFRICA

*************************************************

" The idea that one can invade Iraq to bring democracy and freedom is a confidence trick"

*************************************************

And lets us review the French prospective ....

IN THE1950s and 1960s
THE ALGERIAN OCCUPATION BY THE FRENCH FOREIGN LEGION Until the uprising.... This is by firsthand account,
Thereafter Viet Nam occupation by France
REMEMBER CASABLANCA???...
Gallic Wars .
Hundred Year War
Italian Wars
Thirty Years War
War of Devolution
The Dutch War
War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War
War of the Spanish Succession
American Revolution
French Revolution
The Napoleonic Wars
The Franco-Prussian War
World War I
World War II
War in Indochina Viet Nam
Algerian Rebellion
War on Terrorism
_________________________

what does it mean ? nothing no nation, state, territory or country ever in history can claim
they are not guilty of oppression or cruelty or some form of inhumanity, to point a finger
is to have 3 fingers pointing back at yourself,

I say ask the people of Afghanistan 23 years of war, oppression, inhumanity and finally the Taliban
Ask the woman of Afghanistan what of American occupation, what of American so called crusades
March 1999 woman enrolled in any school in Afghanistan - zero
March 2003 woman enrolled in any school in Afghanistan 2.1 million

I see no relevant issue in the statement,

*********************************************
" In the late 19th century, Christian missionaries provided countless factual accounts of the barbarities of the heathen in Africa which were used to justify intervention"
*********************************************

Being that it was France in the late 19th century in Africa ... I must admit the "Frenchman" is up for
the Crossfire, Kudos to you sir for sticking to your ( Guns ) no pun intended you have in many ways proven the French are not so easy to back down ..good for you !! besides these guys would go nuts if they lost you
you are a value to the debate

So we are withdrawing troops from the Persian Gulf.

Have you seen the exit strategy?

All US forces in the Gulf region are to rendevous in Baghdad and march thru Iraq, and Turkey. It will be the biggest 'live-fire' training exercise in history.

To LOOKING FROM THE OUTSIDE

"no nation, state, territory or country ever in history can claim they are not guilty of oppression or cruelty or some form of inhumanity, to point a finger is to have 3 fingers pointing back at yourself.

I could not express it in a better way.

"I say ask the people of Afghanistan 23 years of war, oppression, inhumanity and finally the Taliban. Ask the woman of Afghanistan what of American occupation, what of American so called crusades March 1999 woman enrolled in any school in Afghanistan - zero March 2003 woman enrolled in any school in Afghanistan 2.1 million

I also say that the Talibans were the closest allies to USA during the last years the cold war.

Frenchman,
once again you are wrong. The Taliban was formed under Omar in the city of Kandahar in 1994. The last time I checked the cold war ended before that. We had lent support to local Mujaheedin groups during the Russina/Afghanistan war. Many of these groups did form under Omar and took part of the Taliban regime, but to say that the Taliban was our "closest ally in the last years of the cold war" is an outlandish lie. If you believe it it is your perogitive, but you are wrong. It is hard to have an ally during at time when they didn't even exist in the form that you are saying.

Once again, you have failed to research what you are saying and proved just how UN-educated you really are!
Toodles

I also say that the Talibans were the closest allies to USA during the last years the cold war.
Posted by: Frenchman on March 12, 2003 10:50 AM
********************

THE COLD WAR WAS LONG OVER BY THEN

THE TALIBAN FORMED AFTER THE NORTHERN ALLIANCE
HEADED BY ( AHEMED SHAH MASSOUD )LOST THE SOUTH OF AFGHANISTAN ( kabull )TO MEMBERS OF
Mujaheedin WHO TURNED INTO AL-QUAEDE IN 90'S

p.s Massoud was the first victim of 9-11 on 9-10

JUSTIN INDEED IS CORRECT
Mujaheedin groups during the Russina/Afghanistan war.

Put France back under it's rock by:
1. boycotting any travel to their country.
2. boycotting the purchase of French goods.
3. refusing to grant visas to any French person for the same number of years equal to the number of American military individuals who died in France during WWII.
4. contacting your congressional/senate representative and insist on legislation to facilitate post-war reprisals.
5. demonstrating in favor of expelling France from the UN and/or withdrawal of the US from the UN.

Aha,
I agree on all except the visas. If they want to come over here and learn rational thought and take part in a true democracy they are more than welcome, if not bon voyage!

Looking from the outside,
Thanks for the support, it helps when others back up your info. Of course if Frenchman learned how to google, maybe he could get his facts straight.

Please stop baiting the Frenchman.
France is irrelevant in the current scheme of things. In the UN they have the same amount of power as Surinam or the Ivory Coast. The United Nations has done nothing but prove exactly how powerless they are. 12 years of sanctions and resolutions have had no effect on Saddam Hussein. Their "orders" have no effect on any despot.
The only time the UN can flex any mascle it is with the borrowed strength of other nations (primarily the U.S., example: Korea '50 to '53).
OPTION 1:
Let's just quit the dithering and enforce the UN's orders for them. Let's just tell the rest of the boys on the Security Council, "While you're deciding whether to pass another resolution, we're gonna give out troops sky-blue berets and enforce the previous 14. Call us when you make up your minds."
If they don't like it, tough. Then we'll take off the UN colors and do it on our own. What are they going to do? Embargo the U.S.? Ha!!!
Might as well just cut their own throats. That way they won't starve to death.
OPTION 2:
Let's scrap the UN and start our own little Unites States of Earth. Have a referendum in your poor 3rd world country, vote to join and you get to send 2 Senators and a proportionate number of Congressmen. Just like every other state. Get your country plugged in as part of the U.S. economy. Doesn't matter that the real estate in in central Africa or southern Asia, it's part of America now!
You say you're a Theocratic nation that grinds down individual liberty and comlpetely represses women?
Not any more! They can drive, drink, walk around in public with their heads uncovered (gasp!) all they want. Smack one with a rock for being a sinner, and you're butt goes to jail.
What's that? Which church should you go to?
We don't care.
You say you want to complain about this new government in public, and be a martyr when you get arrested?
You're in for a very long wait. EVERYBODY complains!

Saddam, Osama, Kim, and their ilk preach hate and fear of America for one reason: IT KEEPS THEM IN CONTROL.

Why do you think Hitler persecuted the Jews? He gave his people a target besides their own government.

Dream clean, Ashcroft is watching. ;-)

Oh! sooo right on, Gorn.

Dear Frenchman,
Congratulations. Though your response was not really related to the issue we were discussing, I am happy to hear about your "overeducation". There are, contrary to popular belief a great number of people all over the world with a great deal of knowledge of your above named subjects and books, Americans in fact, including myself. As it would happen, I also grew up living an old fashioned lifestyle. Also, my knowledge of history has given me a cynical viewpoint of the world as well. However, with all of your supposed "overeducation" you seem unaware of the fact that the opinions of equally educated people may be legitimately different in spite of their education. To attempt to dismiss this difference as immature,overly moral, or uninformed shows a lack of thought. Something strangely contradictory in a supposedly, "overeducated" person.

Nah, Jon... it's not a question of being "over-educated. It's a question of where the educated brain is located - in the skull or up the ***.

[[There is no morality in Business.

Business is Business.]]

Tell that to the folks who got screwed by Enron.

Your logic is insane. Following that same line of thought, it's perfectly acceptable for me to do something innately immoral, if not downright evil, such as sell crack to elementary school children.

Hey, it's just business after all.

Frenchman.

I can actually understand your point of view regarding all of these silly and meaningless insults of France and the French people in general. It is definitely no better than the stereotypes and insults that people all over the world place upon Americans. I don't always agree with what you say, but at least your opposing viewpoint keeps the discussion going.

As far as the war goes, France, Russia, China, and Germany have absolutely no incentive to agree with the United States on this issue. Especially when regardless of what the Security council says, Bush has through his words and actions shown that he is going to attack anyway. (You don't move over 200,000 troops plus naval battle groups, and heavy weaponry to another country's border for nothing). These other countries probably figure that if the US is going to do what it wants regardless of the UN, they may as well look out for their own interests as well.
The idea that attacking the Iraqi regime will strike a blow against a government that supports terrorism is unconvincing as a justification for a war. Especially when considering that the same support that terrorists supposedly get from Saddam, they probably can and do recieve from Saudi Arabia, (our supposed ally) and a whole host of other nations both arab and non-arab. When the war is all over, will the American people be any safer from people with resolve to attack us? Probably not.

Secondly, most Americans admit that North Korea is a bigger threat than Iraq. It is simply not in our interests to go to war with them.

To varying extents, all governments decide on courses of action, as well as the propaganda that they will use to support that action, while at the same time hiding or downplaying other more important but unpopular reasons for what they are doing. France does not really care about peace in Iraq per se as much as they care about their economic/oil interests in that country. The US knew that Saddam was a ruthless dictator when he was our ally during the Iraq/Iran war. He just happened to be the lesser of two evils at the time. The US is interested in protecting its people, but is probably also aware of the economic benefit of having as an ally an oil rich, arab country, whose government is friendly to the US. Bush's announcement of America's commitment to hydrogen research as a way to alleviate our dependence on foreign oil, even if successful does not negate the fact that the US wants to and would benefit greatly from an oil rich ally (like the new iraq) in the meantime.

Don't get me wrong, I don't feel sorry for Saddam in the least. He pretty much deserves to be driven from power. I just hope no one is naeve enough to think that their are not plenty of hidden agendas, or that any of the governments involved in this crisis have taken their stances based on purely benevolent and unselfish reasons.

Mike,

I agree with this statement and can't understand why people submit to the baser thought processes in understanding the situation. This is how the world works and people are just too fond of their pet theories to admit it.

Has anyone brought up the validity of the "New American Century" policy and whether or not this publication has indeed been signed in the Clinton admin by the current policymakers?

The lefties see this as condemning proof of US ulterior motives. I see it as a practical application of force to combat competing ideology in self-defence of its values and dominant position.

Power abhores a vacumm. Rule or be ruled. The only question each one has to ask is which horse they want to bet on.

To Mike,

I agree with your statement and would have enjoyed to be able to write it myself.

I agree comrade. Realism is the best way to look at it. A little factoid proves our point:
How many times since 1960 has France been involved in a military campaign to oust a military strongman?
Answer: 37

How many times has France done this with UN approval?
Answer: 0
Why are they all of a sudden interested in UN approval against Saddam?
Answer: Their own political and economic interests which are threatened with a war in Iraq.
Unfortunately for them those interests clash with American interests as defined by the Bush Administration. We have an interest in attacking, and the power to do so, and so we will. The rightness of it is of course very debateable. Americans in general would always rather not go to war. While a majority of Americans support Bush on the issue. A significant minority of 33-44% of the American people (about 100 millon people)are opposed. But there is at this time, enough political support for him to go forward. With a public as fickle as ours, we will see how long that lasts. Especially, if the war lasts longer than anticipated.
Is Saddam a bigger threat to our interests than others around the world?
Probably not
After the war, will we be safer from those resolved to attack us?
Probably not.

There will probably be adverse and unforseen reprecussions for attacking, but as his ultimatum shows, the president is simply willing to risk it for the possible long term benefits involved. Only time will tell whether or not the risk was worth it.
May God have mercy on us all. Especially our troops and the civilians in danger.

That is as fair of a statement as they come!

Kudos to you.

To Mike,

Again I agree with your statement