Dear All,

I would be wanting in courtesy if I did not expressly say what might otherwise be unsafely left to your obviously limited discernment:

Please be sure that I really understand your extreme impatience in having my enlightening advices on all the important matters discussed in this forum.

It merely shows (if it were necessary) that my advices have been among the more appreciated.

Notwithstanding your constant and appreciated insistence, I must still insist on my right to wait for tomorrow’s crucial vote in the Security Council.

Please believe...

Always Yours,

Hey frenchie,
Read this.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/MiddleEast/wm217.cfm

The Heritage Foundation > Research > Middle East > wm217: Facts on Who Benefits From Keeping Saddam Hussein In Power

Then shut up.

Excellent post, Frenchman. I'd like to send you something in gratitude. What are your co-ordinates?

---

Here's a nice deconstruction and demolition of the arguments Prance and Wormany are using at the U.N. to protect Saddam Hussein:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/882295.asp?0cl=cR

Your country is a disgrace, Frenchman. We're sorry your culture has proved so tragically inviable in the global marketplace of ideas. And that's the real reason your diplomats and leaders are prancing and flitting around disgorging nonsense.

Basically, your country is having a tantrum because no one outside of France thinks French is a language worth learning or using. You're angry because your businessmen have to learn English in order to do business in Asia. You're mad because French media companies need to buy and distribute American media in order to be competetive globally.

This state of affairs can best be explained by the fact that your culture and language suck. French is a musty language incapable of evolving, and its associated culture had its heyday centuries ago. What's the word count for the French language compared to English? It's a pretty pathetic ratio, isn't it? And it's because your language and culture are stale, unable to adapt and expand, inexorably headed for oblivion.

You could have enjoyed the world's continued respect for your past glories by accepting this state of affairs gracefully, but you've chosen instead to kick and scream to get any attention that you can. It doesn't even matter what the issues are, you just want to make a scene. You don't fear American influence, you fear being ignored and unmourned as your country, culture, and language slide into the trash heap of history.

In short:

France, go to your room. World powers are busy with important adult things right now.

Hey frenchie,
Here's another one. I like it even better.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/suzannefields/sf20030310.shtml

Europe is from Venus, America is from Mars.

And here's one more. This examines the fallacy built into the logic of pretty much every other anti-war argument not already shredded in the Slate article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/10/opinion/10BOBB.html

If the appeasement camp can figure out a way to make time stand still, they might be worth listening to.

Once again I am forced to come to Frenchie's defense. You guys need to lighten up. Have some compassion here please. It has got to really SUCK to be French.

First on the China issue, I still can't believe we have allowed them to act as they have and still do as much trade with them. I do hope they are changing and lighten up a little bit and make life better for their 1+ billion people.

If we ignore Frenchman do you all think he will go away? He just envious of the USA and all that we stand for, it has got to suck to be from an inconsequential country like that.

We all know that the UN will fail in this regard, so we will have to go in with the responsible countries and do the worlds nasty business. Then when we are done we will see what France, Russia and Germany really are, ECONOMICAL WHORES. They will sell to anyone and everyone to make a few extra DOLLARS (not euros you neo-facist pig). We know we are right and the world will be safer in 2 weeks.

Dear All,

I again need to expressly say something that might also otherwise be unsafely left to your obviously limited discernment:

There is something you do not seem to understand.

I am accepting the state of world affairs gracefully.

And this is because of the following :

I do NOT think that I am responsible of the present events.

I do NOT identify myself with the past or present French glories or shames.

I am NOT responsible neither for French errors nor for French achievements.

I just feel lucky to be French but I am conscious that I did NEVER personnally participated in anything of which I can be proud of on the field of battle or in politics.

My self confidence is not built on other people achievements.

I never as an individual won or lost any war.

I consider myself as responsible only of my personal actions and tend to be proud or ashamed only of what is coming from my personal and direct actions.

If I am proud or ashamed of some episodes of French history or if I am proud of my President present standing against the war, it does not implies that I feel responsible of it as an individual.

Please believe...

It gets more obvious with each of your posts Frenchman...

You presume to talk about limited discernment? You have never tasted freedom.

Even if your glass-bellybotton view is accurate, and there is really a big Bush/Oil/Euro-Dollar conspiracy... It will not exonerate the French.

It's easy to be against war. What's tough is standing up for principle and winning wars. Are there words for these terms/concepts in French?

Wait for the vote? Why? Is there still a chance France could be bought off? France wouldn't even have the kahonies to cast a veto vote if they can be sure that someone else will do it? You can bet all your cheese they are looking for an escape route.

All those web sites are excellent and prove a few points:
1. Why are we still trying to get UN approval? We helped create the UN, we finance the UN and we do the UN's dirty work. Why must we allow ourselves to be played by them?

2. Why are we still trading with these countries and supporting them in their defiance to UN sanctions? It is time to make a stand and hurt them where it counts, their pocketbooks!

3. All they (axis of weasles) are doing is trying to feel like they matter in this world. They cannot stand the fact that a country that has been around for 230 years is running the show. They are arrogant and feel that since they have more "history and culture" (I use those words lightly), they have more of a say in world politics. They are HAS-BEENS and in some cases NEVER-WERES. They have had their time in the spotlight, it is our time and it is time we lead the way.

I propose that we kick the UN out of the USA, revoke our charter in it and stop funding them. Those billions of dollars that we save can be used for other more important issues. I also propose that we do what needs to be done and let those little countries complain and whine all they want to or in response to the website that Michael referred to earlier we just B@#!$ slap those little women and put them in their place!

The Enchiridion
By Epictetus
Written 135 A.C.E.

1. Some things are in our control and others not. […]

6. Don't be prideful with any excellence that is not your own.

If a horse should be prideful and say, " I am handsome," it would be supportable. But when you are prideful, and say, " I have a handsome horse," know that you are proud of what is, in fact, only the good of the horse. What, then, is your own?

[…] [T]ake pride in some good of your own.

Frenchman,
It is good to see that you accept all the arguments and you do not accept responsiblity for all of your country's fallacies. You as a person has developed your opinions and you are sticking to them. In most cases that would be admirable, but in your case it is just down right asanine. You have been presented with case after case proving the point of why war is necessary. We do not want war. We are not blood thirst tyrants, we just wish to end the rule of one.

The point I'm trying to make is that you are a poor misguided soul. You believe all that has been said by you criminal president without even questioning his motives. You have to question what is being said, and what you and France/Germany/China/Russia are saying is dead wrong. You have put money ahead of the worlds safety. That type of mentality whent out of style in the 1980's, that is why we have stopped doing it. It is now time to clean house.

We ask you to please, please check out those websites with and OPEN mind and see what is being presented. If you are not able to do that, just go away.

Think about this last question: Why are you people protecting Saddam Hussein? To answer fairly you must think of who he is, what he has done and what he is capable of doing.

Monseur: French irrelevance began with Pierre Laval and has continued unabated through this week. Despite your protestations to the contrary,your country, though once the light of world culture, is now the darkness of appeasement. Modern French politicians have learned their lessons well. After wondering for years what protracted socialism would do to the people of the victim nation, I now know. It is not a pretty sight. I salute the efforts you expend in defending French honor, though the futility of your defense causes a massive Gallic sigh.

Agreeing with Cowboy here, let's not pick on the Mr. Frenchman. It is not his fault that he did not have access to education that allows for critical thinking. Nor is it his fault that his access to free press can only be obtained over the Internet. If you've read Le Monde or any other French paper or magazine, the views espoused there have not much changed since the Dreyfus Affair.

Yes, France no longer matters politically, and yes Mr. Chirac is flabbergasted with the Eastern-European upstarts who grasp that point quite clearly, and yes, French contractors are up to their neck in illegal weapons sales to Iraq. That is NOT what the French hear on a daily basis. They do not have access to anything remotely resembling point/counterpoint press that we take for granted.

It is almost as if the French political leadership have developed an Occidental version of the Middle Kingdom syndrome.

Anyways, that's my nickel (adjusted for inflation). Mr. Frenchman, now that I'm done defending you, 2 minutes for ignorance, because ignorance is not an excuse.

Wow, here's yet another good article, re: Prance and Wormany's geopolitical aspirations ...

http://nationalreview.com/ledeen/ledeen031003.asp

I'm liking this angle better, because it explains why they can't come up with any coherent reason for their defense of Saddam Hussein -- they can't admit their real intentions, because the support of most of the French public would immediately evaporate.

I certainly don't think French people in general would support leaders with an openly aggressive anti-American agenda, but they do seem happy enough to accept drivel as an explanation for their country's foreign policy so far. This, unfortunately, doesn't say much for their ability to make practical "discernments" about any of their government's aims or intentions.

Look at this ...

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2000/427/427p22d.htm

...then explain me why?

Why is the Left blaming this kill-crazy Uday Hussein (radical Islam) on the US "sanctions" ?

Why do they contend that this war is "unnecessary." ? (Even if they didn't have (and use) these horrible WOMD... which they DO !)

Why do they argue that we shouldn't go to war because the "Bush Administration" will not be able to make any difference anyway?

ìThese crimes are continuation of violence against women by patriarchal and reactionary political governments and groups in countries such as Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Algeria and Saudi Arabiaî, the party said, calling on all progressive people and organizations to condemn these crimes against women.

"tsk tsk tsk, Mr Hussein, you really should stop doing these naughty things."

Condemn these crimes ? Damn !! Why not support the effort to actually do something about it?
The injustice is very real. This GreenLeft (Frenchman) kind of editorial is total insanity.

The real travesty is that the US is "arrogant" and hated for being the ONLY people who will lead a coalition against this. (Should the US support the UN.. or vise versa?)

Even though there may be some small vestige of truth to the motivation being partially fear and greed, (conspiracy even?) it ain't exactly like we are the only ones in this quagmire of guilt/blame. No one should suppose that we don't also have a love for humanity and freedom... that also drives us "emotionally" whether from the Right or the Left.

First ol' Frenchie takes us cowboy Americans to task for trying to rid the planet of evil, blaming us en masse for the decisions of our government. "you Americans this, you Americans that."

Now the Frenchman seems to be saying "don't blame me for my government's idiocy."

Frenchman, I strongly support President Bush and have always thought we should have taken him out in '91. Now, we can kill two birds with one stone - by forcing the UN to vote we will witness the implosion of the UN simutaneous with the explosion of Saddam. We will also be able to prove the treacherous dealing of the French with Saddam for the past 12 years when our Marines and Special Forces liberate Iraq. At that point, dear Frenchman, what will you say?

The definition of unilateralism will be understood when the French stand as the only ones against the resolution.

Now something to really make you guys mad:
FRENCHMAN LIVES HERE!

He spouts anti-American sentiment and resides in the US. "FRENCHMAN@AOL.COM"

Pretty sickening, huh?

I think the French are just afraid of the day when we find weapons in Iraq with their fingerprints on them. The only reason Iraq is compliant is because WE are on their doorstep. So, if the French want inspections to continue, then FOOT THE BILL.

Frenchman- you have no idea how great the divide between our countries will be now. The United States does not need French wine, croissants, burlesque or mimes. I would say that you'll start feeling it in your pocketbook, but then again, YOU LIVE HERE.

News flash! Here's a full transcript of the new UN resolution.

Dear Mr Hussein, you must completely disarm in five....four....three...two...one...ding!

The French have requested to change the last sentence to three....two....two and a half...two and a quarter.....two and an eighth....two and 5/16ths...4/16ths....etc...

French Person.

#1 You have nothing to teach us from your dead language perspective. We have read your tedious, spend all day in the cafe, memos. You think that because we don't agree with you that WE are misinformed. It would never occur to you that you may be myopic. Of course not! If it your thought it is correct. You have made up your mind that you, becuase you are European, are the sole owner of the world's knowledge. We, on the other hand, are just ignorant because we don't see the world in the same way as you do. That is the reason that your language is dead, you culture is dead and you are irrelevant. YOu will keep the world in the shackels of your failed socialist ideals and will scream if anyone tries to make you see that you are living in a world that no longer exists.
Frecnh Person, the world is moving on without you. YOu just sit in your cafe and spend hours waving your hands about and babbling in your dead language but let the rest of us move on in the world and improve it.
PS stop talking about horses. We don't like to hear you talk about your food.

"Basically, your country is having a tantrum because no one outside of France thinks French is a language worth learning or using."

Not trying to point fingers here Keith, but if you'll remember, the Canadians want to adopt French as their "official" language... Hardy har har!!!

My apologies, even though the obscenity was part of a well known quote. Won't happen again.

[Editor's Note: This post was deleted because that was faster than editing out the coarse language. ScrappleFace readers are too intelligent to require obscenities to make, or understand, a point. Please feel free to re-post an edited version. In general, it's best to avoid scatalogical and sexual terminology when more precise words will work better, and be more suitable for our many young readers.]

It's unfortunate Frenchman is the only one offering a different opinion here. Even more unfortunate that it comes from a frenchman...

However, I digress and will attempt to remain with the facts. The fact is that sanctions have not worked for 12 years. The fact is Hussein became so brazen in the face of a lackluster administration he knew had no backbone, and booted the inspection teams. It wasn't until the mightiest army on earth started massing on his boarders did he decide to blow a few missiles. Is that really compliance? Does that honestly mean Iraqi personnel will stop hiding viruses and other weapons?

Lets say he does start to comply. The US pulls back all 300,000 troops, save for a few thousand in Saudi, and leave the inspection teams to do their work. Does any sane, rational person believe Saddam will remain compliant?

As for the European view that we are meddling in affairs we don't belong, we didn't have to kick Germany out of France twice. We didn't have to come over and free half of Europe. To put it bluntly, the US has had more effect on the economic and social development in France in the last century than your own countrymen.

Lastly, there is the little issue of the Marshall Plan. Lest you forget, it said we would help to rebuild all the countries in Western Europe as well as forgiving most, if not all, of the debts incurred during the Second World War.

Now I'm curious to read a rebuttal.

Ameri-can has it exactly right. When Saddam is removed in the first three hours of the war, and the U.S. and British (God Bless the Brits) begin rooting out the WMDs, France and Germany will be doing a lot of spinning to explain how it is they armed this lunatic. It is a good thing to know who to trust early on. This is just the first quarter of a long contest against terrorism. We now know to ignore the UN. We know we can trust our British and Spanish cousins, as well as the New Europe. I am going to enjoy watching the French, Germans and Russians twisting in the wind. We can also rejoice in watching the democrats in the house and senate do some serious twisting too.

Frenchmans post currently smells of a backslide on his part. (something we will be hearing a lot of from the French once it hits the fan)"Don't blame me, I didn't do it"
Brace yourself America, there is going to be more where that comes from once the lid is pulled off this Iraq French garbage can. Their best $$$ buddy will be in the toilet and the US won't be interested in their overpriced wine, stinky cheese or excuses for their shameful behavior.

Let the damage control and finger pointing begin.

To Lord Robert

My position is and has always been the following:

I think and believe that motivation for wars has ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS been Ruler's GREED for POWER hidden behind PROPAGANDA.

PROPAGANDA is needed because soldiers are HONEST SINCERE and so need to be persuaded that they are going to give their life for a JUST CAUSE.

That has always been true in history and is true also in this possible future war.

To David:

This point is interesting but has already discussed sometimes before in this forum :

Are you expecting that because the United States intervened in a European war six decades ago that France must now and forever blindly obey whatever a warmongering American elite decides ?

It was France that helped America achieve independence from a tyrannical Britain more than 200 years ago. Should you therefore be obligated to pledge its blind allegiance to French foreign policy forever after?

To Phrogpoet

"Even if your glass-bellybotton view is accurate, and there is really a big Bush/Oil/Euro-Dollar conspiracy... It will not exonerate the French."

"Even though there may be some small vestige of truth to the motivation being partially fear and greed, (conspiracy even?) "

Thank you !!!

Frenchman

One must not be prideful with any excellence that is not one's own. (Epictetus)

Frenchman,
You are right that we should not be obligated to someone for deeds done in the past, but you seem to be bringing up history in every forum. Stop bringing up history of you do not want us to come back with other historical facts.

What it comes down to is that your country has received a lot of help from us in the last 60 years. Both world wars, the build up of your economy etc etc. The thanks we get is a 2 day ultimatum to get our troops out of your country and you won't stand behind us on anything. Back in the 70's and 80's it was known that any information that our country shared with yours (including sensitive secrets) would be known by Moscow (the ENEMY) within 24 hours! You have been selling us out since the cold war and we are tired of it!

The key to understanding the French is to view them as a bunch of very feminine women. They clearly act out the stereotypical or "traditional" womanly role of submitting to and fawning over the most masculine or macho leaders around.
Just like submissive women are frequently attracted to the dangerous, dark bad-boy types of men, the French fall all over themselves to gain the attentions and/or affections of the most brutal and oppressive dictators.
This explains their undying love for Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Kim Jong Il, etc. Saddam's ultra-violent machismo is almost a caricature of masculinity, but that's exactly what makes the French get week in the knees for him.
The U.S. is far too decent and honorable a "nice guy" to win the attentions of France. The French will only spread their legs for the wife-beating outlaw biker type of "bad boy".
Notice that Chirac did not kiss Mugabe on his recent visit to Paris? He was probably afraid that he wouldn't be able to control himself from going further when in the presence of such a "real" man (sigh).

Frenchman:

You are half right in your statements regarding the motivation for war. "motivation for wars has ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS been Ruler's GREED for POWER hidden behind PROPAGANDA". This is what SH has been doing all along! He did it when he tried to invade Iran. He did it when he invaded Kuwait! He will keep on trying until someone has the balls to stop him. Which brings us to the other half of the justifiable reason for going to war. TO STOP GREEDY POWER-HUNGRY LEADERS FROM WAGING WAR ON INNOCENTS! You, as a frenchman are incapable of understanding this concept of self-defence. mebbe its the cheese...........

I prefer the term "old hags" instead of very femminine women. I think they should be B*%#h slapped and told to get back into line!

John Wayne, that is a good point to bad the Frenchman is incapable of discerning good logic..

Posted by: Frenchman on March 11, 2003 10:48 AM
motivation for wars has ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS been Ruler's GREED for POWER hidden behind PROPAGANDA.
*************
greed
power
propaganda

AS it may be up to the third generational wars and warfare it may or was an issue

but we have gone beyond that point to say ( just and war)in the same sentence is of no meaning period,

We have no need of propaganda it is invalidated by 9-11, America is a battleground, period
and as it is a fact in 1995 The Taliban and Al-Quaeda was left unchecked with out intervention of a known enemy you have before you 9-11,

This is fourth generational warfare the old rule does not have any application,

Along with the term preemptional war with Iraq is invalidated by Resolution 687-1441 and the no fly zone daily 12 year attacks against the coalition air craft
greed
power
propaganda
are not a valid issues they have no application when fourth genarational warfare has a party defending itself,

M'seur: France assisted the rebellious colonies during their fight for independence, not as an altruistic and respectful gesture toward freedom, but as an economic investment in the future. France was looking to the future and the tremendous potential that this land had as a trading partner. There was also the desire to tweak the British, their long time enemy. It is ingenuous of you to imply that there was any other reason when it is obvious that, with your understanding of History, flawed though it might be, you know better.