From the 1/14/03 Daily Probe

Black Researchers Discover 1000th Spelling Variation of "Antoine"

This isn't far from being completely true. I think there is a lot of discrimination in HR departments, against ethnic or exotic names, against age and against gender. But how can you prove it? Send out a resume with your actual credentials using a male, "white" sounding name, and imply you are about 27 years old.

I agree with Loretta. If I were counseling "Antwone" I'd tell him to change his name to Anthony. I'm not sure gender matters. It probably depends on the job.

I'm running a service for those ambitious postgraduate students seeking assistant professorships at major land-grant universities. We massage your curriculum vitae and give you a new name so that they think you're a Hispanic lesbian.

Make that a black-hispanic-bisexual-pregnant-diasbled-veteran and you've got a deal!

This is by far the most idiotic thing i've heard. Studies did show before that people having simple names like "joe" had their essays graded better by english teachers then names like "Hubert" or "Bertha".
Yes people may discriminate based on names, but to conclude that this is because the names are "black" or "white" is idiotic. (obviously all variables haven't been looked at..ie you might find different responses between all white names, or all black names too. )
Whoever made this conclusion, obviously hasn't had any experince with statistics. (sounds like another "off the wall" CNN conclusion)

Why didn't the "study" go the next step and ask why it might be true that employers might be hesitant? Could it be that, rather than being racist, they are making an economic decision that they would rather not hire an employee that should he or she not work out they'd have a tougher time dismissing?

A concrete example: look at unemployment rates of the disabled after passage of the Americans with Disabilities Act.

I named my kid Globular Cluster NC5346 because I figured that it would enhance his ability to get a job with NASA.

If I ever have kids, I am going to give them names like "Doctor," "Admiral," and perhaps "Secretary General." Maybe if I have lots of kids, I met get to use "Honorable Justice," and "Senator" as well.

They will always be able to get reservations at trendy restaurants!

Here are my thoughts about this whole subject. First of all, it is extremely stupid, silly, and immature to deny someone a job because of their name. In this situation, it is also very bigoted. Bigotry that is based on someone's skin color, nationality, sex, religion, handicap, age, etc. is about as dumb as being prejudiced against someone because you don't like the size of their feet. I'm writing this even though I'm a Caucasion.

Secondly, parents should use some common sense when they name their children and avoid giving them dumb names. Giving a child an ethnic name is not automatically bad. However,the name should be easy to spell and pronounce and it shouldn't have any bad connotations (Adolph reminds people of Adolph Hitler). The names shouldn't be redundant or rhyme with each other (John Johnson, Ryan O'Brien). Make sure that the initials don't spell any bad words (SAD, DUD, FAG, GAY, FAT, ASS, etc.). If you name the child after yourself, then please do it the correct way. Let us say that your name is Michael Alan King and you have a baby boy. You can name your son Phillip Michael King and call him Phillip to avoid having him confused with you. Then you put his name on legal documents as Phillip Michael King or Phillip M. King and everybody will know what to call him. Whatever you do, do not call him by his middle name because people have amnesia about this.

Elaine hit the nail on the head ... it's all the parents fault.

Just think, if EVERYONE named their kids "Bob Smith" or "Sue Jones" it would be pretty tough to discriminate based simply on names. It would also be much easier for teachers, co-workers, etc... who would only have to learn one name instead of dozens.

Shoot, come to think of it, think how much better life would be if everyone had to shop at The Gap and they only sold one style / color of Khaki pants and polo shirts; Same thing for cars and houses. I really like this, our lives would be MUCH simpler (not need to decide what to wear or drive to work), and given the economies of scale involved, cheaper. It would cut out advertising, marketing, and generally the costs of competing with differentiated products.

Thank you Elaine for pointing out how much better life would be if we could simply eliminate all of those losers that insist on being individuals.

Let's see. If black folk receive 30% percent fewer employer responses than white folk, then I'll need a little help with my math. I have a real white name and for the last year I've been seeking employment since being laid off. I have received zero employer responses to my resume. What is 30% of zero? Zero? I guess they're right. They are screwed!

Take that Elaine!!!

Elaine,
Who gave you, or anyone, the authority to determine what's normal or "dumb"? It's that attitude that causes non-American's to hate us. Names that are hard for u to pronounce or spell are actual COMMON names in some parts of the world. I don't want to judge you, but it appears that you have very little experience outside of your little world. Don't act as if the entire world should revolve around the United States. If the United States stands for freedom, then why does the burden have to be on marginalized groups to assimilate? Perhaps it's because people like you are too arrogant to respect and learn someone's birth name. I bet you consider yourself an open-minded intelligent person. If so, why is it that you're demonstrating an inability to respect and adjust? Please learn to respect diversity. Oh, by the way, go ahead and look for misspelled and misused words. It seems that that's the only way for people like you to build themselves up.

The solution is to have everyone, even the Bluebloods, join the military, where your identity is obliterated and your name excoriated, especially if you're unfortunate enough to be Richard (Dick) White or Peter Black; eventually you will be lamed or aged to the point where the Veterans Administration takes over and you become "last & 4" i.e. the first letter of your surname and the final digits of your SSN: humanity DOD gray.

Elaine;
Don't pretend that you have ordinary sized feet, cause we know better. Until you start wearing a size 8 to 9 1/2 sized shoe, just keep your trap shut.

Danjo, I hate all clowns, cause of their big feet.

You would be surprised at the number of idiots who honestly believe they can determine a personís race from their vernacular over the phone. As though being white is a prerequisite for mastering the English language. I remember a real estate agent telling me over the phone, about how great a neighborhood was because the community has an unwritten agreement not to sell to blacks. As a black professional, this actually works in my favor, because I can have several long distance phone interviews, impress the would be employers, and show up for work, and keep the job because they can't meet deadlines if they have to look for someone else. GOTCHA

Bob Smith, you idiot, we are individuals.

I think it is unfortunate that some idiot is spending his time and money researching crap like this instead of something important like how to determine someone's shoe size based on their resume.

Some of the people on this message board did not bother to actually read what I wrote earlier. Earlier, I wrote that it is actually not bad to give a child an ethnic name. Will you please pay attention to that?

I simply think that it is much easier for the child if you don't do some things that truly are dumb. Here are some examples. Making up meaningless names that don't mean anything at all because you like names that are derived from anagrams is downright weird. Are you 14 years old and having a baby? That is the real sign of immaturity and stupidity. Giving extremely illiterate unconventional spellings are annoying to the child because the child has to always correct people about the spelling of his or her name. One guy I used to work with had a name that was spelled Kevvon. Almost all of his mail had his named spelled Kevin because most people will not change their assumptions about how this name is spelled. Why on earth should poor Kevvon have to go through his entire life having people spelling his name wrong because his parents are indeed stupid? Were they drunk on alcohol when they named him? I lost count of all of the times when mail would come into our company mail room with Kevvon's name misspelled on it. About 99% of the time, his name was misspelled as K-e-v-i-n. In fact, I wish that I had been paid $1,000.00 every single time that this happened because I would have at least $100,000.00. Why do you preach about accepting diversity and then refuse to accomodate Kevvon because you have amnesia about anyone who has a "different" name from you? Do you have any idea how annoying it must be for Kevvon to have to always correct people about the screw-ups when people misspell his name? I sympathize with him because my last name isn't pronounced the way that it is spelled and I always have to correct people about my last name. It gets old after a while. Why don't your actions match what you say? Isn't there an old saying that your "actions speak louder than words?"

It is a horrible idea to call a child by his or her middle name instead of the first name. I never use my first name on a daily basis and I have been like this ever since the day of my birth. Now I will explain why this is a very bad thing to do to children. When the child gets outside of the home, all legal documents are required to be listed under the fist name, middle initial, and last name. Nobody wants your first initial, middle name, and last name. Tell me when you ever saw a legal document that wanted your first initial, middle name, and last name. If you are like me, then you have never found any legal documents anywhere that want this information and there is a reason for this. These legal documents do not exist. Many people who work in either a business or a government agency are rude and they will not let you introduce yourself with any name at all. If you do introduce yourself with your middle name instead of your first name when you are showing your driver's license to them, then they will not listen to you. They only type in your first name, middle initial, and last name. Sometimes they will not even type in the middle initial at all. People never bother to ask you about which name you prefer to be called. They automatically call you by your first name or a stupid nickname derived from the first name because these idiots mistakenly think that they are automatically instant "friends" with total strangers. These idiots never do the polite thing and that is to call customers by their last name such as Mr. Smith or Ms. Jones. They don't ever pay attention to the fact that you never use the first name or any of the nicknames derived from the first name with any of your relatives or friends. Let us say that I want to rent a car. This is what the idiots do to me. First of all, they do all of the idiotic garbage that I have already described by shoving the stupid first name or unwanted nicknames derived from the first name down my throat and throwing away the middle name. Then they butcher the last name by mispronouncing and/or misspelling it. The entire name gets completely ruined because of these idiotic strangers are lying by trying to be my "friend." Now I have to ask you an important question. How are any of you my "friend" when you don't have a clue about which name that I use on a daily basis? I thought that friends were supposed to know this information. It isn't just car rental companies that do this because my name has been screwed up in schools, college, traffic court, banks, law firms, paralegal firms, security brokerage firms, insurance companies, car dealerships, pawn shops, video stores, travel agenies, gun stores, real estate agencies, and health clubs. Guess what happens when the idiots learn that they made a mistake or several mistakes in my case? They either immediately get very abusive and tell me that they want to slap my face, or they treat me like I'm too stupid to know which name that I prefer to use. A prospective employer did the former to me once and a college professor did the latter to me in front of about thirty people. Every prospective employer that I have ever met has had to be corrected and I have gotten dirty looks from people. People who give polygraph tests are also stupid and have ruined my name by butchering it. Clerks in stores will screw up your name when you pay for merchandise and have to show the driver's license for identification purposes. One time a stupid, rude clerk in a store asked me if the reason why my parents deviated from the norm by calling me by my middle name was because of the possibility that my parents did not want me.

School was horrible because I had to correct the teachers and classmates every single year. Everytime we had a subsitute teacher, the same thing would have to be done again. Guess what happened in fifth grade. The entire class lied to a subsitute teacher about which name that I used every day. She was nice and believed me but those kids were mean. It was even worse in high school. In eighth grade, we received forms to put our personal information on it so that we could be in the student directory. This form needed our name, home address, and home telephone number on it. An idiot had already put a stupid nickname derived from my first name on it before it was handed to me. I don't use nicknames that are derived from the first name that I do not use. Because of this, I refused to fill out the form and my homeroom teacher verbally abused me because somebody else had made a stupid mistake. My tenth grade homeroom teacher called me by the wrong name for an entire year. My eleventh grade home economics teacher screwed up my name but she was much better because it only took her about five minutes to learn my name. The twelth grade woodworking teacher took about six weeks to learn this. Even though I and several of the boys in the class repeatedly told him my preferred name every single day during the entire first week, he would not listen at all. That jerk annoyed me every single day for several weeks. He also constantly ruined the last name by mispronouncing it.

College was horrible and it wasn't just because of the rude college professor that I mentioned earlier. Every college professor also had to be corrected and one teacher gave me a dirty look. College professors don't listen very well either. Idiots in the college business office, the admissions office and all academic advisors would screw it up. The idiots who programmed the college computer did not even program it to pick up the last letter of the first name and the middle initial.

It took forever to get my name changed on most of my accounts in private companies and the public records of government agencies. Unfortunately, this was like pulling teeth out of a mule because many people refused to cooperate with me. Even after I changed my name on these records to J. Elaine E********, some people still insist on screwing up my name. They enter it into a computer as Elaine J. E******** and then it takes forever to fix that mistake because people refuse to cooperate with me. This isn't good because it is incorrect, stupid, dishonest, incompetent, immoral, and illegal. Would you like it if I deliberately lied to you about the correct order of my name when I'm at your business? Would you want me to voluntarily choose to lie to you about this subject? Of course you do not want this because it is wrong to lie and use an alias. If that is the case, then why do you want to force me to use an alias against my will? What if I don't correct you about the mistake and you find out about it later on. Are you going to punish me because you will say that I have misrepresented myself? Why would you do this if you forced me to do this and refused to correct the mistake? Look at it this way. If you have the right to force me to lie about my name the way that I have just described, then I have the right to assume that you like lies. Is it okay with you if I lie and say that I'm Catherine Angela Johnson when I have never had that name? Some of you have written that it is good to respect diversity and people being individuals by using different names. Would you please explain the general public's amnesia and lack of respect towards me because I have a different name? Will you please accept diversity by your actions by not having amnesia about people who use their middle names instead of their first names? If you preach to me about accepting divesity and then you reject what I want to be called, then you are a liar. If you want to call people by their middle names every day instead of their first names, then you should accomodate them instead of punishing them for what you inflicted on them. If you don't want to do this, then you should call people by their first names on a daily basis from the day they are born. Whatever you do, please remember the rules of business etiquette. Call strangers by their last names until they give you permission to call them by their PREFERRED GIVEN NAME. You don't make up unwanted nicknames or automatically assume that everyone answers to the first name. You don't throw away the middle name and then punish them because you called them by the wrong name (first name). Don't misspell and mispronounce any of the names (first, middle, and last). If you violate the rules of business etiquette after you give someone a different name, then you are only giving that person an unneeded and unwanted nuisance. Can you understand now why I wrote earlier that it is better for a man named Michel Alan King to name his son Phillip Michael King and call the son Phillip? Do you understand why I wrote that this will avoid the problem of confusion between the father and son? Do you understand why having the name listed as Phillip Michael King or Phillip M. King on the legal documents will avoid confusion about which name the child uses when he is dealing with strangers away from home? There are a lot of stupid strangers out there and they will cause a ton of problems for the child when they learn that the child has a weird name.

I didn't mention a few other things in my last post. My sister is called by a nickname that is derived from her middle name and she has been this way ever since the day that she was born. Some idiots told my sister when she got married that she wouldn't be able to legally subtract her first name without going to court. If she legally changed it, then she would have had to take time off from work, go to a lawyer or paralegal, pay several hundred dollars to the lawyer or paralegal, fill out a petition to change the name, file the legal document with the local Superior Court,pay the filing fee to the court, print a legal notice in a legal newspaper, pay money to the legal newspaper for the legal notice, take more time off from work to appear before the judge and be asked a ton of nosy questions about why she wanted to change her name. Then the judge would decide if she could be granted a legal change of name. My sister wanted to get rid of her first name, use her original middle name as a new first name, and use her original surname as a middle name when she took her fiance's last name. She was also told that she could keep her first name, drop her middle name, keep her original surname as her new middle name, and use her fiance's last name without going to court. Will someone please explain to me why this huge double standard exists when all a woman wants to do is get rid of the name that 99% of the people who know her don't even know that she has? This double standard sounds like a rip-off to me. Oops! Excuse me for making a mistake! It is indeed a rip-off and it is very expensive and disgusting! What on earth is so danged important about a first name if you never use the stupid thing?

Elaine,
Wow! I like your tenacity, but you're still not understanding our point. You are of course intitled to your opinion. Let me just simply ask you this - should someone by the name of Akeem Agunbiade change his name after becoming a US citizen just to appease narrow-minded people like yourself? You may call his name stupid or meaningless, but it's an ACTUAL NAME that has meaning to that particular culture. If you're willing I would like to keep in touch with you for a future project of mine. Contact me in about 2 years and remind me of our encounter. J2Holland@aol.com

You have completely missed my point because I wasn't writing about immigrants who move to this country. It is obvious to everyone including me that immigrants from other countries have different ideas about what they should name their children. I was thinking and writing about AMERICANS and how they should not give stupid, goofy names to their children. As you can tell from what I have written, my parents completely screwed up my name. In fact, I sarcasticly refer to it as a "legally required alias" when I have to give someone my first name, middle initial, and last name. Is this how you want your child to refer to their name?

Being a black woman, I thought I've seen and heard and experienced most forms of race discrimination, but this takes the cake. I'm laughing so hard now that I can barely write this comment. This gives a whole new meaning to the term "sell-out"!