Well,as long as this is satire couldn't you come up with something a bit more creative and appropriate than the Palestinan "GOLIATHS"?? A team nickname that would capture a bit more of the real-world essence and characteristics of the team?? I'd like to kick off this informal contest as to what would be a more appropriate nickname for the Palestinian team by re-naming them the
'Palestinian Pythons','Palestinian Pirhana' or perhaps the 'Palestinian PeaceKillers' for starters.

Calm down, Marc. Scott is totally correct. The word "Palestine" is derived from "Phillistine." Thus Goliath from the Phillistines is smote by David of the underdog Israelites, according to the Bible.

FWIW, my ancient history profs (back in the day when ancient history was known as current events) theorized that the Phillistines were refugees from Mycenean culture that flourished in Greece until natural disasters drove them into exile.

Gene Mierzejewski

Very interesting. So the right of return should refer, by rights, to Greece.

How about "Bombers" as a team name?

I would draft zem for my team, ze Blown-Aparts.

Well Joanne, why not take it all the way? Abraham came from Mesopotamia (Iraq) originally, so why not refer the Jewish right of return back there?

All humans probably came from Africa, so why not put the right of return there?

Or maybe we can admit that rights of return based on ancient history are nigh insupportable.

What the Palestinian refugees are requesting, on the other hand, is based on their displacement in the 1948 war, something that happened in living memory and -- in the case of the older regufees -- to them personally.

This is a far cry from pointing to some land where their ancestors lived along with other tribes and claiming it as an eternal home.

Does this mean Israel has to allow all 4 million back? Personally, I think some should be allowed to return, and the others should be offered reparations in lieu of a home in Israel. Then Israel can preserve its Jewish majority and postpone its demographic crisis for another 20 years, just like we're doing here with Social Security.

Jim--equal numbers of Jews were displaced from Arab-dominated areas during the 1948 war. It's only fair that the Palestinians and other Arab nations pay those Jews and all of their descendants compensation in return, right?

The Palestinians weren't "displaced" in 1948--they LEFT, so that the Arab nations who were to invade Israel wouldn't have to worry about killing other Arabs. But then--oops! Israel won!

Things are tough all over.

Jim - Jews have been living continuously in Israel since biblical times. At least try to get your basic facts right.

Methinks "Napolean" wins on the name-game.

Of course! Good Simpsons references ALWAYS win :)

About the Palestinians demanding a right to return to Greece . . . Um, I was kidding.

I do know some Israelis whose parents fled Iraq in the early '50s. But they don't want to return.

Bill -- Some Jews were living in Israel since ancient times. I didn't dispute that. There were between 15,000 and 25,000 in 1890 before European immigration got underway. These Jewish residents of the Levant weren't asking for a right of return, since they were already there.

As for the others, whose ancestors left or were driven out of Israel, what separates them from Palestinians who left or were driven out of Mandatory Palestine exactly?

Alex -- Some Palestinians were indeed driven out, according to Israeli historian Benny Morris. And Benny is no friend of Arafat. Here's a money quote:

"My conclusion, which angered many Israelis and undermined Zionist historiography, was that most of the refugees were a product of Zionist military action and, in smaller measure, of Israeli expulsion orders and Arab local leaders' urgings or orders to move out. Critics of Israel subsequently latched on to those findings that highlighted Israeli responsibility while ignoring the fact that the problem was a direct consequence of the war that the Palestinians - and, in their wake, the surrounding Arab states - had launched. And few noted that, in my concluding remarks, I had explained that the creation of the problem was "almost inevitable", given the Zionist aim of creating a Jewish state in a land largely populated by Arabs and given Arab resistance to the Zionist enterprise. The refugees were the inevitable by-product of an attempt to fit an ungainly square peg into an inhospitable round hole."

Now, Benny Morris blaims Arafat and the Palestinians for the recent violence, and for the 1948 violence, so he is not exactly a Palestinian partisan (which you'll see if you click the above link), but he hasn't changed his view that Zionist military action was responsible for the exodus of most Palestinians.

Quotes from his book are more direct:'In general, during the first months of the war until April 1948 the Palestinian leadership struggled, if not very manfully, against the exodus: "The AHC [Arab Higher Committee] decided .... to adopt measures to weaken the exodus by imposing restrictions, penalties, threats, propaganda in the press [and] on the radio .... [The AHC] tried to obtain the help of neighboring countries in this context ..... [The AHC] especially tried to prevent the flight of army-age young males," according to IDF intelligence'. (Righteous Victims, p. 60)'Whatever the reasoning and attitude of the Arab states' leaders, I have found no contemporary evidence to show that either the leaders of the Arab states or the Mufti [Hajj Amin al-Husseini] ordered or directly encouraged the mass exodus during April [1948]. It may be worth noting that for decades the policy of the Palestinian Arab leaders had been to hold fast to the soil of Palestine and to resist the eviction and displacement of Arab communities'. (Righteous Victims, p. 66)'In Kafr Saba [early May 1948], the locals, under threat from Haganah attack, wanted to leave, but were ordered to stay by the ALA [Arab Liberation Army] garrison. According to Haganah sources, the ALA, with the population of Ramallah about to take flight, blocked all roads into the Triangle: "The Arab military leaders are trying to stem the flood of refugees and taking stern and ruthless measures against them." Arab radio broadcast, picked up by the Haganah, conveyed orders from the ALA to all Arabs who had left their homes to "return within three days. The commander of Ramallah assembled the mukhtars [official leaders] from the area" and demanded they strengthen morale in the their villages. The local ALA commanders turned back trucks which were coming to take families out of Ramallah. .... Haganah intelligence on May 6 reported that "Radio Jerusalem in its Arabic broadcast (14:00 hours, 5 May) and Damascus [Radio] (19:45 hours, 5 May) announced in the name of the Supreme Headquarters: 'Every Arab must defend his home and property .... Those who leave their places will be punished and their homes will be destroyed.'. The announcement was signed by [Fawzi al-]Qawukji.' (p. 68-69)Is it so hard to believe that civilians would flee an open battlefield?

Jolly Roger -- I've read the claim that 600,000 or so Jewish refugees were expelled from Arab lands in 1948 as well. I've seen it on pro-Israeli web sites like netanyahu.org, palestinefacts.org, and middleeastfacts.com (isn't it great how both sides are only dealing in facts?). What I haven't seen is a credible independent source verifying these claims (a major news outlet would do, or a scholar).

I admit that there may be such a source, I just haven't seen it. If you can point me in the right direction, I'd be grateful.

I don't mean to stard a wild debate, but I am willing to go into it in e-mail if this comments section isn't the place.

Jim,
I do believe that proof must be somewhere showing that Jews lived in Arab lands before 1948. So what happened to them?
I have also read about Palistinians expulsions on pro-pal websites,Why should I believe that any more than you should about Jewish expulsions?
One person is not enough to convince me, but maybe you truth threshold is a lot lower than mine.

Two analogies (let's see if they work):

1. Native Americans dominated North America prior to the 15th century. I don't see us giving them "right of return" to Manhattan.

2. When there were riots in US inner-cities, did the US government give the rioters sovereignty? Aren't these rioters essentially terrorists? No, we squashed them, restored order, and arrested the perpetrators. Why should we expect Israel to do any different than our police would do?

Like it or not, just or unjust, when you win/conquer a territory, you get to keep what you conquered, and you get to run it how you want. Historically, might has always made right. When has the victor of a war ever given land back to the loser? When has the victor ever intentionally allowed despoilers destroy their society from within?

Israel has continually beat the living daylights out of every Arab country that attacked them. Key phrase: attacked them. It's an old story: Israel defends, Israel wins. Result: Palestinians are owed nothing. Nada. Zero. They can keep strapping bombs to their babies' belts -- they'll still get nothing, and they deserve nothing.

We can argue history all we want (and the arguments above are great arguments, don't get me wrong) -- but it really doesn't matter how long the Jews have been in Israel. I don't care if Jews first set foot there in 1948. I don't care if they got control of it unfairly (like we got control of Manhattan, for a handful of beads?). Point is, they have legitimate control of it NOW, and so have the right to do whatever they must to keep it -- just like the US isn't giving back Manhattan, and wasn't about to let it be taken over by a violent minority.

I know, I know -- "doesn't that make Israel a bully?" Two responses to this:

1. Are they bullies? Or are they just keeping order and protecting their way of life, something every civilization has and continues to do?

2. So what. Being a bully is better than being marched into the gas chambers. The "Jew as victim" mystique is getting old -- I for one like the current incarnation of ass-kicking Goliath slayers. I'm sure there's something religiously wrong with that sentiment, but am I so wrong in wanting "Chosen People" to be interpreted, loosely, as "Victorious People"?

In sum, Palestinians need to wise up: they are losing, and they will continue to lose this conflict. They just need to decide how badly they want to lose.

Jim,
Encarta gives the number of Jewsish refugees from the Arab countries of North Africa and the Middle East as 300,000. It does not give the number of Palestinian refugees.

The Columbia Encyclopedia gives the number of Palestinian refugees but not the number of Jewish, and it says there were 400,000, but that 150,000 were allowed to return.

So the number of Arabs displaced by the Israelis and the number of Jews displaced by Arab states are on the same scale. Exact numbers are essentially unknown and unknowable, as is the degree of voluntariness of each refugee, of course.

But the fact that there are millions of Palestinian "refugees" from the 1948 war is explicitly an Arab failing; eveybody else in the timeframe whose populations were moved (Jews from the Arab states, Germans from Czechoslovakia/Poland/East Prussia, Hungarians from Transylvania) integrated their displaced populations into their society, instead of leaving them in camps as an excuse for revanchism.

Another Colombia Encyclopedia article says the Israelis let 150,000 of the Arabs return, but there's no indication if the 400,000 is pre- or post-allowance.

So the numbers of refugees is fairly similar, esp. since nobody has an exact count anyway.