I loved my dead, gay sons!

First.

Did I mention that the Hussein boys were found with a bottle of perrier water?

Scott Ott:

man of his caliber...return to an underground bunker... as always, your Otticisms are wickedly funny.

Those underground bunkers wouldn't be the ones that are about 6 feet down would they?

Brilliant! One only wishes it were true.

"doubtless with a heavy heart" may be my favorite line yet... :)

And may their stomachs roast in Hell.

"There's nothing like a day like today to make those 9-11 blues go away."

Cass: please write some kind'a song or something. You know, something that I can dance to.

They were hiding in a cousin's house. Now, in the US, when Joe Blow escapes from the local jail, what is the first thing we do? Stake out relative's homes maybe? One would hope that we have knocked and searched all homes owned by Husseins and their in-laws. Right? I wonder.

I bet when we find Saddam, it will only be b/c his non-use of his AMEX frequent flier miles caught someone's attention.

....and another news story: for some reason, France surrendered today.

Scott - One of the best ever, congratulations!!!

The DoD delayed confirming the lads' identities pending notification of next of kin (rimshot)...
next of kiiiinnnnn.

Will they be lighting candles and leaving teddy bears and flowers at the site?

I wonder if the NY Times or the BBC will report on the celebratory gunfire which crackled across Baghdad after dark Tuesday as word spread that Saddam's feared and hated sons might have been killed.

uday and qusai are edday, onay erginsvay!

This brings to "two" the total number of sons of Saddam killed by enemy fire since President Bush declared an end to major hostilities in Iraq.

Sorry scrapplers, I have been out of touch for several days and missed my scrapple fix. Just got my portable on line. The question burning through my mind is "What caliber?" Another thought, hang the bodies by their feet like Mussolini and his mistress were after WWII. I also heard that someone got $30 million for turning them in. I on the other hand would have done it for considerably less.

"triggered...death...stand up...in clear line of sight...We aim...caliber...full attention of many of our finest men."

...heavy heart...underground bunker."

You crack me up man... heh... So you want him assassinated?, ;)

WHOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOO! Two down, two to go!! It couldn't have happened to a more deserving pair. I wonder what Ooglay has to say about this.

P.S. KJ, whats with the b****ing? Did you think that dad & the boys would leave a forwarding address?

HA......HA....

are you all sick? enjoying the death of anybody is atrocious, whatever he did.

i think we don't have the same ideas on what is life and what is Christianity.

i'm sorry for you

Allow my Christian perspective.

I would have preferred that this war would never have been considered necessary and that the atrocities of Iraq under Hussein had never happened.

I wish that, once we went over there, that the Hussein supporters, or anti-US fighters, whatever, would have peacefully laid down their arms and surrendered.

I wish we had won quickly with low casualties for us and civilians (which happened), and no blood shed was cureently happening.

I wish that the Hussein boys would have found Christ and delivered Daddy to us, and peacefully surrendered.

As it is, they hid, probably issued orders to attack our troops, we hunted, we found them, they decided to shoot it out.

At that point, the only good solution was to kill or capture them, with no US loss of life. Given the cards dealt, we received a perfect outcome.

They are dead? Good!

NOW OPEN! THE HUSSEIN WING OF HELL! (VACANCY)
It may not be Christian but I feel WONDERFUL about this. This means that they CANNOT come back to power and the loyalists will wonder who they are still loyal too. P.S. God and I will discuss my feelings in private..

Max:

I'm just curious: exactly what do you find worth celebrating in the continued life and freedom of a man who used school teachers to provide him with the names and photos of pretty junior high school girls, who then abducted and raped them and, when he tired of them, shaved their heads and had them murdered or thrown into prison?

Or a man who tortured and maimed Olympic athletes for not winning? Or a man who raped and dismembered wives and children in front of their fathers and husbands?

Could I have killed them? In cold blood - probably not. I've never hit someone and I taught my kids to avoid fights where possible. In a firefight - perhaps. To prevent them hurting yet another person - I hope so. To defend one of my own children? I know so.

I would feel bad about killing another human being until the end of my days, but I hope I would have the courage to do it. It is regrettable that they had to be killed, but is the alternative - that they continue to live and continue to kill, rape, and torture - preferable?

Maybe you are more "evolved" because you are apparently able to prefer the demise of an infinite number of innocent people to the death of two of their persecutors. I can't help wondering how you would feel if you had known any of the victims? If it was your wife or daughter?

I hope Saddam has been watching this on TV all day long.

Max, I rejoice in the death of such maggots. They do not deserve any tears or feelings of sorrow. Do not presume to feel sorry for me. I do not want nor care about whether or not you think that I or anyone else for that matter, should be happy with the death of those animals.

Max! you said:..."...think we don't have the same ideas on what is life and what is Christianity.

Since you yourself ALSO said this: "Judge and jury belongs to justice.....god is NOT justice......'--Posted by: Max on June 13, 2003 03:54 PM

---why NOW, Max, do you suddenly take a stance on what is or isn't Christianity or "justice"??.

Admittedly...upon hearing the news the thought briefly crossed my mind & heart regarding a father losing 2 of his sons--In a "normal" world that would be unthinkably grevious. Yet...what kind of REAL relationship existed between such WHACKED out EVIL, EVIL, and indescribably wicked human beings? You really think if he thought he had a reason Saddam wouldn't have ever killed his own sons OR vice versa?....

Furthermore, the worst part ( from an "eternal" perspective)--- what "payoff" is theirs for "living" as they did? (the term "living" used loosely) The way they chose to spend ("live") their lives seems far more heinous than their deaths.

The AGES old "spiritual law" of "what goes around comes around"...simply came around for Saddams sons. It ultimately came down to choices they've made, really. I myself have felt a little tiny bit bad about not feeling bad about their demise. I probably grieve more for the untold thousands --if not millions who were senselessly raped,tortured and massacred at their hands--and that just for "sport"!?!?!?!?!

Choices always have consequences.Paraphrasing some of God's words to humanity in the Old Testament of the bible (listing consequences for both choices)..He says "I have set before you life or death- blessing or cursing.--therefore choose life"..but He can't make ya. It's called free will--- Saddam and his boys chose to squander their lives in a most despicable way and they certainly didn't "choose life"!! Whether or not you believe the bible...it's just good common sense life principles in that book!

Ya know Max....it seems you just like to dissent on ANY point made by the majority here. If we said water was wet..You would attempt to refute it..(and YES we already know its solid in ice form!:~})

Isn't it that you just enjoy being obstinate for the sake of obstinance, Max?

I guess in this case "justice belonged to "judge and jury", indeed. This particular judge and jury was well armed and smarter than the Hussein boys!

My apologies for the lengthiness of the above post. (:~}) I'll go back to my catnip toy now. AAHH..who needs catnip--- JESSIE"S HOME!!WOO HOO Me & the Dog are WAY happy! ( in case you've wondered: I commute back and forth to W VA from CO often (:~})..thus I'm still in the LFam!)

If I may offer an opinion Ms. Cassandra.

What Mr. Max believes should be done to show disapproval of the actions of the late Messers. Hussien is to send off, without delay, a sternly worded letter of censure to Mr. Kofi Annan of the United Nations. Max and his fellow travelors, being the civilized chaps they are, believe the "shock and awe" of society's censure, sure to follow such a missive, would be ample deterrent to the type of behavior you have described. Alas it is not to be as you and others here know. There are some in this world who require, as a previous contributer to these pages put it," nothing short of a good sharp stick in the eye".

Right Ho Yanks!

If I may be so bold as to offer a second opinion after such a short respite....

In the case of Messrs. Hussein, one is reminded of the novel "To Kill a Mockingbird". This particular novel was a favourite of the more enlightened liberal of the 1960's. In one of the most important scenes in the book and the movie the hero, one Atticus Finch, slays a rabid dog with his pistol, (good God, a handgun). The hero then goes on to explain to his little nipper, that sometimes killing is necessary to protect life and limb of the good folks in this world. It is both sad and amusing how the liberals have gone so far off their track of late. Several Atticus Finchs of the 101st Airborne have killed two rabid dogs in Mosul. Those who were most endangered, the good folks of Iraq and environs, rightly celebrate tonight.

are you all sick? enjoying the death of anybody is atrocious, whatever he did.-Max

HA........HA..........

Max can be seen weeping at the spot that marks where Hitler is supposed to be buried...ChIraq has requested that the white surrender flag fly at half mast for Odious and Queasy.

Now if we can only get Osama bin Laden in the sights of the Screaming Eagles...we will be passing through Fort Campbell later on this summer and we will stop and take a minute to think about the brave men and women who brought this moment about and who are gone from us because they made it possible to get those two perps.

Max, wasn't it you who thought the friendly fire incidents were funny?

>>>are you all sick? enjoying the death of anybody is atrocious, whatever he did.

i think we don't have the same ideas on what is life and what is Christianity.

i'm sorry for you

Posted by: Max on July 22, 2003 10:05 PM

The ONLY thing that could have been sweeter, is if you Max, had been there with them!

Since Uday and Qusay have each already had more than the alloted 72 virgins, does that mean they will do eternity alone? Maybe the little girls they molested and murdered will have access to the Husseins in their swinging bachelor pads. Revenge is good. Max, the Old Testament is also part of Christianity. Read that part and you will feel better.

Max, Of course you're right. I have felt terrible ever since hearing about, 'The Boys' demise. I was actually laughing and rolling on the floor when I heard the news. I really, really feel bad now!

What's that you say? ------No, no, It wasn't 'The Boys' death's that had me laughing, it was the previous story about the burning Tower of Eiffel!

Hee, hee, a little puff of smoke and mirrors, you frogs will do anything to get some international press, and a little sympathy. If not for the Hussein story, it might have worked too!-------Oh oh, here I go again, MUH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Ahhh woe upon me I am rending the clothings of my person in grief unequaled through human history as my beloved brothers, those grease- coated heroes of Tikrit, Europe, and the American left, are lying now as corpses in the hands of the infidel! How fondly I remember the many humiliations I suffered at their glorious hands, the unspeakable acts they committed upon my person as I matured, the many things no man should do to another that were done to me by them for pleasure! All gone now, the world will never know their like again! Were it not for my recent acquisition of some 30-odd million American dollars I would have virtually nothing left to live for. Excuse me pig Americans, while I am going to further rend my suddenly antiquated-looking personal wardrobe....eternal woe be upon me!

Uday and Qusay have just been introduced to their 72 Virgins! Mohammed was faithful, and delivered what he promised!

But in a twist, straight out of an old Dudley Moore Movie, (that's name escapes me, at the present), the 72 Virgins are all MEN and were Virgins for a reason, that being they smell like a frenchman, and look like a cross between Michael Moore, Helen Thomas, and Hillary Clinton!

"Welcome to HELL, Boys!" a jovial Satan, (who rarely makes public statements), was heard to say! "Your Daddy will be here soon!"

I must take issue with a part of Ooglay's comments above. Although the majority of Tikritis may have supported the Hussein boys, I suspect a very few had enough humanity to oppose them, though definitely not vocally or overtly.

Likewise many Europeans were not big fans of the Hussein family.

My sense of decency required me to stand up and defend those members of those groups who did not worship Ooglay's "grease-coated heroes".

WAIT !!!!

Hate to be a killjoy,--- but we need to be sure that they are the REAL thing before we celebrate.

Those arabs uses a lot of doubles.

C'mon down, Saddam. Edith made up the guest room.

Berlusconi is the richest man in Italy, a crook who is using any means including his TV network to discredit the Juges who are after him. And yet, he is the only guy invited at GWB's ranch.
Interesting meeting of the minds. Like Hitler meeting Musolini.

What? The American Media Lies. Saddam's son's are not dead. Saddam's son's are currently living back in their mansions in full control of Baghdad. The stupid Americans continue to commit suicide on the gates of the palace wall. We have already kill 3 million of the infidel, while the glorious son's toast their glass of the infidel blood. In fact, Saddam doesn't even have any sons. The American media tells more lies constantly. And if Saddam ever had any sons, they would have both single handedly beaten back the American pig-dogs and would have stolen their tanks and their shovels. If Saddam had sons. Which he didn't.

I'm sorry for you Max, you are missing out on sooooo much joy not being able to gleefully celebrate the death of those two scumbags.

I was just watching a CentCom briefing. The first question was taken from a reporter with a thick Arabic accent. He asked the General if he did not feel that this was a failure, since they were armed with only "little" guns, (paraphrasing here) since it was 4 against 300. He felt that they could have been taken alive. What a snarky twit.

I wondered why tear gas wasn't used, but then I remembered the US does not use chemical weapons. Maybe time to rethink that, eh?

My only regret is that the Iraqi people didn't get to see a perp-walk of the Hussein lads, get to see them with the fear on their faces that they so much enjoyed seeing on others'. I hope that Saddam is taken alive, for these reasons, and that his trousers show clearly a wet crotch and a dark line going down one pant leg. I want to see him crying, whimpering, looking for all the world like the coward that he is.

I don't know that the Sunni resistance would have been there unless Odorus and Queasy were right there with guns to their backs.

The Shi'ites may have been cowed too, but all in all, a good day's work by the 101st.

I have to side with Cassandra over Max with this one. I have no need for Max's pity.

Max has decided that a slavish obdience to a formal set of rules is what classifies a person as moral or, failing to obey those formal rules, immoral.

This ignores the purpose of the rules, or the principles those rules are based on. Which is the life and happiness of the greatest number of individuals.

If obeying those formal rules does not achieve the objective of those rules, if it gets more people killed and raped and murdered, because those who do not obey them use your beliefs against you, then it is not being moral. It is being dead.

I don't see Max as being more evolved. But then I suspect the feeling is symmetrical

The ONLY thing that could have been sweeter, is if you Max, had been there with them!

Posted by: What MOST People Here Are REALLY Thinking! on July 23, 2003 05:46 AM

__________________________________________________

OH OUI mon ami,

mefiez vous de ceux qui prennent la parole du Christ pour un message totalement angelique !

ils ne connaissent pas la violence du mÍme
jesus christ le rÈvoltÈ !

ps : to read / JÈsus vient pour apporter le glaive.

La devise du Christ est donc trËs claire : JÈsus vient pour APPORTER LE GLAIVE, la lutte, la guerre ‡ Satan, au monde et ‡ soi-mÍme, et cela pour Dieu et son royaume. D'o? les bÈatitudes,
incomprÈhensibles pour les coeurs qui ne sont pas chrÈtiens.

JÈsus dÈnonce, avec force, l'hypocrisie et le mensonge. Il meurt victime d'avoir criÈ avec conviction la VÈritÈ ‡ la face du monde...!

__________________________________________________

sans commentaires supplÈmentaires et mille
excuses pour ce message en franÁais, mais je
suis plus certains du sens profond de ce message.

Max,

¦ >[

Max I am appalled at the behavior of these posts.

hehehehehe

I am against capitol punishment because I know of a dozen d.a's and 50 judges who have been arrested for corruption.I simply dont trust the powers that be to enforce it properly.

I could also walk into 100% of the state prisons in this country and kill most of these people with my bare hands for the crimes theyve commited.

There is a difference.

Tis a great day for the home team.I wouldve prefered them being turned over to the kurds for their amusement but whats done is done and I for 1 am happy.

The guy who posted that he wished Max was with the Hussein boys is an idiot.

How does 1 get so uptight in an anonymous forum?

Sublime
My butler Enrique is demanding you return the soundtrack of Kenny G and Michael Bolton,apparently you swiped them from his car the night he debuted at the ram-rod...
No one does a rendition of Crimson and Clover like Enrique and no one looks better in a red boa

To paraphrase the great american patriot Thad Stevens:

"There is a strange sentiment, some call it mercy, that infects people of every class, from the priest to the clown, that has more sympathy for the murderer on the gallows for his victim."

[Its not an exact quote, but if you find the original you will see i am only a word to two off.]

Max, my sympathy is with the families of the 14 year old girls Uday raped. Some of those families were humilitated and murdered if they tried to resist the attack. My sympathy is with the two women who were raped by Uday on their wedding day while their familes had to listen. The second time this happened, the groom killed himself. My sympathy is with the 300,000 Shiites murderd by Qusay. And my sympathy is with the families American soldiers whom they have killed, however many they may be.

I could care less about the gruesome twosome's lives and smiled big when i heard they were dead.

Btw, does anyone remember that Tim McVeigh was executed about a month before 9-11? I was told that when 9-11 occured, McVeigh was led to the cell where they were keeping Mohammed Atta, and the Devil said to Atta, "Remember when you were told you would get 72 virgins? Well, here is your first one."

Anyway on Uday and Qusay, let's sing it all together folks: "Ding dong, the Witch is dead..."

Aaron

Opps, sorry the quote was:

"There is a strange sentiment, some call it mercy, that infects people of every class, from the priest to the clown, that has more sympathy for the murderer on the gallows THAN for his victim."

the typo fairy struck again.

Aaron

"There is a strange sentiment, some call it mercy, that infects people of every class, from the priest to the clown, that has more sympathy for the murderer on the gallows for his victim."

it's exactly my feeling, thank you to have given this Aaron... ;)

on the gallows THAN for his victim...

good reaction,
but I have understood the deep sense before...;)

I have a tough job. First, there is no half way doing my job. If I don't successfully kill my victim, the medical bills for my boss can be huge. And I am expected to do this with style. A certain amount of screaming, trembling, and bravado. It is difficult to get unwilling victims to perform like that. And I have to make my quota. I'm like, do you want production or quality? Then you have my bosses, Uday and Qusay, watching me like a hawk. Then here they come, "watch me do it, you amature!" they say. Always making me look bad in front of my co-workers and victims. How do get someone to show the proper defference before execution after being humiliated by your boss like that? No, I am the real victim here.

Murderer on the Gallows:

LOL! You just made my day...

Aaron

Murderer on the Gallows "la victime", I understood your great problem, but now you have to find another good job with the family hussein...

it's possible as atomic shield ?!

:);)

ps : j'aime bien votre humour...

I think a one gun salute will be just fine eh?
;)

Murderer on the Gallows should give the ACLU a call or possibly OSHA. Or maybe the executioners should unionize. Murderers Local 666.

I called the ACLU. They wouldn't help me because all of my victims were already born.

Yo Max

I am a budhist ,but believe me i was celebrating the departure of these two incarnations and hope these two will be reincarnated as bacteria that dwell in the larger intestines of a rat for the next tenthousand cycles, after that they can be reincarnated as females living in a islamic society for another tenthousand cycles,after that its back to bacteria again,then as frenchman,then the type of grashopper that gets his head bitten off after mating etc.

Wow, frenchmen? That's pretty rough. *lol*

GMT 2106 23-7-2003

DEBKAfile reports exclusively: US special forces are massing for large-scale action Wednesday night at Saddam’s village of Oujah on outskirts of Tikrit north of Baghdad - core of deposed ruler’s support base in Sunni Muslim belt. Oujah is also village of Marwan Zeidan who owns Mosul villa where Saddam’s sons killed and was arrested by Americans Tuesday. US military action may stem from information obtained from Zeidan

vultures like the taste of dead hyenas
hyenas like the taste of dead vultures

vultures like the taste of dead hyenas
hyenas like the taste of dead vultures

que?

Heres what the most popular Israeli paper says about the current intifada
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=320991&contrassID;=2&subContrassID;=4&sbSubContrassID;=0&listSrc;=Y

ah heck , the wildly varieing interpretenion of the penance that must be done for living, for excitence is sin and thus punishment inescapable,
concept ,needed in allmost all of the other religions of the world

I realy rather wonder if being:
being used as a prophylactic by golgaththe thorn [] guardian of hell.
is such a bad fait

BTW

US forces capture key Saddam regime official, commander of Special Republican Guards - his own praetorian guard - Barzan Abd al-Ghatur Sulayman Majid al-Tikriti, No. 11 on wanted list. Circumstances of capture not released.

Can anyone confirm?

existance

General Sanchez also announced the capture of the commander of Saddam's Special Republican Guard, Barzan Abd al-Ghafur Sulayman Majid. He is a cousin of Saddam and is known as Number 11 on the coalition's most-wanted list. There are now 18 of the 55 most wanted former regime leaders still at large, including Saddam Hussein himself.

Lieutenant General Sanchez says the coalition is focused on finding him.

"The ultimate objective is Saddam Hussein and as I have stated before, we maintain the focus on all the high value targets and we will not fail," he said.

i just confirmed myself

DEBKA.com is down. Could the US military have taken it down to avoid further information on upcoming attacks against pro-Saddam forces in the Sunni triangle?

Or maybe just a glitch?

My life is so mundane, I'm just trying to start another internet rumor. :-)!

Max's Quote -

vultures like the taste of dead hyenas
hyenas like the taste of dead vultures

and sooner or later it will end up in a French Resturant...

If I was Saddam right now he should probably be staining his favourite pair of Russian designer Khakis. Don't worry Saddam you will soon be dancing the jig of eternal damnation. Hugs to your family and save a place for the rest of your supporters.It is probably festival seating.And you thought Iraq could get hot!

To kill them quick, in a firefight, was the most economical, expedient and DDDDDDDDDDDeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelicious way to pass them into the great beyond.

Capture them? EEEEEEWWWW can anyone think of something more odious to burden themselves with than the trial, hue and cry of fools? Every twit on the face of the earth would've rushed to gain notoriety by defending them.

I wonder what vulture tastes like? Chicken maybe? Any body know a good recipie for dog?

Maximally,

I'm hurt- to the heart from the small son of the Momma of Maxs. How you more disappoint once your mother. You bother yourself to the patience that is showed you by these kind foreigners. I never was more bothered to be the momma of maxs. Why does your anxious ways of bothering these foreigners, that showed me the kindness of francs to buy bread? They put the bread on your table of fathers. Yes ñ this you know - Maxs! The very place I work for their francs where of their names I forgot. Even, from the very table that I met your father, before he went to join the French Foreign Legion.

The signs of your father loves are over there always on the table where he signed his name in love to me.

ìWhat these means?î

"Kilroy was here?"

"Eh, the maximums?"

"Something small to you, like your fathers - but not your momma?"

"Do you not to be able to see you,his heart, pouring out to my arms and making the table of our love?"

Again - why bother you these pleasant foreigners on the internet. How will they know because of your insolence in order not to to show your momma their benevolence, their francs for ñ mommas kindness.

"Eh,Maxima?"

I live above the sewers to win their respect. I show them my open arms and permit the knowledges that all the French women are in fact to showing the benevolence to the foreigners.The french woman, her work is never done.

Maxs, I work so hard on my back for to do you a house. Finish your school; to remember that of your momma, that you will be a better boy to strangers like your momma. Some time I am only disfigured for affection of the foreigners.But they still show me their kindness many times a day.Some even pay the extra francs for my disfigurement. Now you to give to your momma likes the way that the foreigners do. Give me twenty francs if I can buy the more of bread.

Please -To forgive me for the Momma of Maxs - kind people of scrapple - I am if bothered by his child. My English is the worse one than I spoke better before.

Cordialment,

The Momma of Maxs

>>>I wonder what vulture tastes like? Chicken maybe? Any body know a good recipie for dog?

Posted by: Fr. Guido Sarducci on July 23, 2003 09:40 PM

Fr. Guido: LM@O, If anyone knows a good recipe for CROW, please send it to:

The Democratic National Commitee
c/o Terry (egg on my face) McAuliff and Howard Dean
Washed-Upville, USA

"Even, from the very table that I met your father, before he went to join the French Foreign Legion." dixit

it's possible the momma of max !!

your child has a BIG problem it is completely possible for him to join his father while saying to him to engage in THE LEGION ETRANGERE...

that will calm it !

I give you an address: www.legionetrangere.fr

bye :);)

WARNING TO ALL THOSE WHO ARE NOT INTERESTED IN HISTORY OR IN WHAT LA FAYETTE MAY SAY: YOU DON¥T NEED TO READ THIS.

BUT I NEED TO DO THIS BECAUSE I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT LA FAYETTE IS GONNA READ WHAT I HAVE TO TELL HIM.

IT¥S ABOUT WHY THINGS ARE NOT EXACTLY THE SAME!.

La Fayette read carefully:

Yesterday I had no time and I still think it¥s not worth but anyway. We are talking about something very serious and I want it to be crystal clear because it may seem to be a little complex from abroad countries.

I also want to make clear that the things I¥m gonna talk about has nothing to do with my personal opinion, because as I said before I respect all different kinds of opinions and demands, what I don¥t respect is terrorism.

One thing is about these traditional basque regions you talk about, it has to do with the primitive and ancient “vascones” or “vasconia” which origins where in LogroÒo, La Rioja , time later they spread to other regions , including Aquitania ( French territory let¥s say). TERRITORIAL LIMITS CHANGE AND YOU AS A EUROPEAN SHOULD KNOW ABOUT IT.

You may find websites that talk about the traditional basque regions. The majority of them are talking either on an ethnic concept or they have been made by people who are in favour of the independence from Spain and from France, people who want to build a country with these 7 ancient regions.

These ancient basque regions were mainly an ethnic group, not a political one, they were not a country as we conceive countries today and precisely it¥s there where the problem starts.

DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE HISTORY OF NAVARRA IN SPAIN? Because some of its history is related to other traditional basque regions, but not to a formal basque country because as I said it didn¥t existed in these terms, besides the history of Navarra implies much more, it has its own identity.

I¥m gonna give you just some examples that show they are not exactly the same, in fact the situation is very complex ...

DURING THE CARLIST WARS, THE CARLISTS TRIED TO DEFEND THE HISTORICAL RIGHTS OF THE HISTORICAL SPANISH NATIONS, INCLUDING THE BASQUES. DUE TO THE INFLUENCE OF THE CARLIST GROUPS IT APPEARED A NATIONALIST POLITICAL PARTY “ THE NATIONAL BASQUE PARTY” FOUNDED BY SABINO ARANA, THIS PARTY DEFENDED THE INDEPENDENCE OF EUSKADY, THE SUPERIORITY OF THE BASQUE RACE AND THE BASQUE LANGUAGE, AND WAS ALSO BASED ON A STRONG CATHOLIC FEELING.

THOSE IDEAS FOUND A GOOD ACCEPTANCE IN GUIP?ZCOA AND VIZCAYA, A LITTLE LESS ACCEPTANCE IN ¡LAVA, BUT THESE IDEAS FOUND A STRONG OPPOSITION IN THE CARLISTS OF NAVARRA WHO WHERE STRONGLY AGAINST IT.

TIME LATER…

WHEN THE DICTATORSHIP OF FRANCO ENDED, THE DEMOCRATIC CONSTITUTIONAL REGIME OF SPAIN RECOGNIZED THE HISTORICAL RIGHTS OF NAVARRA, AND ACCEPTED THE CONSIDERATION OF THIS REGION AS A HISTORICAL NATION INSIDE SPAIN. BUT ANYWAY, TO AVOID ANY KIND OF TROUBLE, NAVARRA WAS GIVEN TWO CHOICES:

ONE: TO BE PART OF THE SPANISH BASQUE COUNTRY IF THEIR CITIZENS AGREED WITH THAT BY REFERENDUM.

TWO: TO BE RECOGNIZED AS A HISTORICAL NATION (BY THE FIRST TIME IN A DEMOCRATIC SPANISH REGIME) DIFFERENT FROM THE SPANISH BASQUE COUNTRY, ACCORDING TO NAVARRA¥S HISTORY AND ITS HISTORICAL RIGHTS AND LAWS.

NAVARRA DECIDED NOT TO BE IN THE SPANISH BASQUE COUNTRY, OK?

THAT¥S THE REASON WHY THEY ARE NOT EXACTLY THE SAME, WHEN YOU TALKED TO ME YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE SITUATION IN MY COUNTRY ,WELL IF YOU VISIT NAVARRA TODAY ( IN SPAIN) YOU WILL REALIZE THAT YOU ARE NOT IN THE SPANISH BASQUE COUNTRY , YOU ARE IN NAVARRA.

PEOPLE FROM NAVARRA CALL THEMSELVES AND CONSIDER THEMSELVES MAINLY AS NAVARRANS ( NAVARROS) . They are neighbours and there are historical links between each other, BUT THE SITUATION BETWEEN THE SPANISH BASQUE COUNTRY AND NAVARRA IS NOT PRECISALY CLEAR AT THE TIME BEING . Nowadays , a majority of them see themselves as navarrans and spaniards , others, see themselves as half-navarrans/half-spaniards, others as half navarran/ half-basques, others only as basques and others only as spaniards.

NAVARRA NOWADAYS HAS ITS OWN GOVERNMENT WICH IS DIFFERENT FROM THE SPANISH BASQUE COUNTRY¥S GOVERNMENT, IT HAS ITS OWN PARLIAMENT WICH IS DIFFERENT FROM THE BASQUE CONTRY¥S PARLIAMENT, AND KEEPS ITS HISTORICAL RIGHTS AND LAWS WHICH ARE DIFFERENT FROM THE BASQUE COUNTRY¥S ONES, IT ALSO HAS ITS OWN STATUTE BECAUSE IT DECIDED NOT TO BE INCLUDED IN THE SPANISH BASQUE COUNTRY.

AS I SAID YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT AN ETHNIC CONCEPT, BUT THIS ETHNIC CONCEPT IS NOT REPRESENTED NOWADAYS BY REALITY. IF YOU TALK ABOUT THE SPANISH BASQUE COUNTRY IT HAS THREE PROVINCES ¡LAVA, GUIP?ZCOA AND VIZCAYA , ALTHOUGH IN SOME INDEPENDENTIST WEBSITES THEY TALK ABOUT THE ETHNIC AND HISTORICAL CONCEPTS, INCLUDING THE ANCIENT 7 ONES, IN OTHERS THE JUST TALK ABOUT A HISTORICAL FACT.

MAYBE YOU LIVE IN THE PAST, YOU SEEM TO COME FROM THE PAST , BUT IT DOESN¥T MEAN THAT OTHERS HAVE TO DO THE SAME THAN YOU DO.

BUT REMEMBER THAT THE INDEPENDENTIST ALSO DEMAND THE FRENCH TERRITORYS, THEY WANT TO BUILD A BASQUE COUNTRY WITH THE 7 ANCIENT AND TRADITIONAL REGIONS. THAT¥S THEIR PARTICULAR VISION OF THINGS, BUT THIS SITUATION DOESN¥T CORRESPOND WITH REALITY NOWADAYS, NEITHER IN NAVARRA NOR IN FRANCE.

IN FACT THE SPANISH BASQUE COUNTRY IS THE ONLY POLITICAL BASQUE COUNTRY THAT EXISTS AT THE TIME BEING, BECAUSE FRANCE DOESN¥T RECOGNIZE THE ANCIENT BASQUE REGIONS PLACED IN FRANCE AS A COUNTRY INSIDE ITS TERRITORY , FRANCE CONSIDERS THEM AS A PART OF THE FRENCH TERRITORY AND AS A PART OF THE FRENCH COUNTRY, BECAUSE THESE REGIONS WERE INCORPORATED TO THE FRENCH CROWN. WHY DO FRANCE BEHAVE LIKE THAT? BECAUSE AS I TOLD YOU TERRITORIAL LIMITS CHANGE ALONG THE HISTORY. THE NAVARRA PLACED IN SPAIN DON¥T DEMAND THESE TERRITORIES , THE ONLY ONES WHO DEMAND THEM ARE ETA AND A FEW RADICALS.

BESIDES , NOWADAYS NAVARRA DON¥T SEEM TO AGREE WITH THIS ANCIENT IDEA EITHER ,AND THEY SHOW IT IN THEIR VOTING.

I¥M NOT SAYING THAT I¥M IN FAVOUR OR AGAINST , AS FAR AS I¥M CONCERNED EACH ONE IS WELCOMED, ALTHOUGH I THINK IT¥S TIME TO TALK ABOUT A GLOBAL CONTEXT LIKE THE EUROPEAN UNION, IT¥S BETTER TO LOOK TO THE FUTURE AND NOT TO THE PAST, I ALSO WAS BORN IN A CITY THAT BELONGS TO AN AUTONOMY THAT CAN HAVE DIFFERENT DESIGNATIONS ( AND I¥M NOT TALKING ABOUT SPAIN BUT ABOUT ONE OF ITS HISTORICAL NATIONS) IT CAN BE CALLED COUNTRY, KINGDOM, AUTONOMY . BESIDES IN THE PAST IT HAS HAD DIFFERENT TERRITORIAL LIMITS THAT HAVE CHANGED ALONG THE HISTORY, WE ALSO SHARE ONE OF THE SPANISH CO-OFICIAL LANGUAGES WITH OTHER REGIONS BUT IT DOESN¥T MEAN THAT WE ARE EXACTLY THE SAME ALTHOUGH IT EXIST A BROTHERHOOD BETWEEN US.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT DIFFERENT CONCEPTS THAT MISLEAD A LOT OF PEOPLE AND YOU ARE MISUNDERSTANDING THINGS. It¥s important to know very well the history with all its particularities and it¥s also important to know the situation that we are facing nowadays.

Just to give an example, according to the essay written by the prestigious historian Lacasta-Zabalza, wich is not precisely a conservative , otherwise , he is writing this essay in favour of the Spanish Basque Country and in favour of Navarra.

“Y si jurÌdicamente se devuelve algo a alguien es porque concretamente lo tenÌa. Eso puede decirse con respecto a las tres provincias vascas. En cuanto a Navarra, es m·s un reconocimiento de algo institucionalmente nunca interrumpido desde 1841(...). …sta es una historia sucedida en el mismo tiempo de los siglos XIX y XX, con sus enfrentamientos y entendimientos, entre los derechos histÛricos vascos y navarros y el constitucionalismo espaÒol”

HE IS POINTING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BASQUES AND NAVARRANS.

“Un car·cter asaz complejo, porque supone, como en el caso de Navarra y su actual Ley de Amejoramiento del RÈgimen Foral, nada menos que la expresa vigencia de la Ley Paccionada de 29 de octubre de 1841. Y la presencia de todo el pensamiento jurÌdico del pacto de Navarra con el Estado, del "encuentro de dos voluntades" como dijera con exactitud en 1894 en las Cortes espaÒolas Arturo CampiÛn, en el sistema constitucional de hoy mismo”
“Por otra parte, no se llegÛ al momento constituyente de 1978 con los mismos bagajes ni los mismos antecedentes por parte de unas comunidades que de otras. Si est· vigente la Ley Paccionada de 1841 de Navarra es porque ahÌ, previamente al texto constitucional, habÌa un problema pero que muy serio de las relaciones de esa comunidad con el Estado y con el PaÌs Vasco”

LA FAYETTE I THINK YOR KNOW A LITTLE SPANISH BUT ANYWAY IT SAIS THAT IT THE PACCIONADA NAVARRAN LAW OF 1841 REMAINS NOWADAYS, IT¥S BECAUSE BEFORE THE SPANISH CONSTITUTION EXISTED, THERE WERE VERY SERIOUS PROBLEMS REGARDING THE RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN NAVARRAN AN THE STATE , AND BETWEEN NAVARRA AND THE BASQUE COUNTRY.

THE FOLLOWING DATA BELONG TO A SURVEY ABOUT THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE BASQUE COUNTRY AND ITS RELATIONSHIP WHIT NAVARRA AND WITH THE FRENCH TERRITORIES http://personales.mundivia.es/lbouza/vang.htm

“la mayorÌa de los entrevistados (42,1 % frente al 39,9 %) considera poco menos que una quimera que ese Euskadi unificado acabe convirtiÈndose en realidad. M·s de un tercio de electores del PNV y de EA y el 10,6 % de quienes votaron HB comparten ese parecer.
Varios son los factores que pueden influir en ese pesimismo, que se extiende incluso a las filas nacionalistas. Por una parte, la convicciÛn de que Francia no ceder· ni una maceta de su territorio y, por otra, la fundada sospecha de que la inmensa mayorÌa de los navarros no quieren ser vascos, como lo demuestra el hecho de que en las elecciones que se celebran en el viejo reino foral, las fuerzas nacionalistas vascas apenas superan el 12 % de los sufragios.

THE SURVEY SAYS THAT THE IDEAL OF A UNITED BASQUE COUNTRY IS NOT VERY REALISTIC BECAUSE THE BIG MAJORITY OF NAVARRANS DON¥T WANT TO BE BASQUES, THEY HAVE SHOWN IT CLEARLY DURING THE ELECTIONS, WHEN THE NATIONALIST NAVARRAN PARTY WHICH IS IN FAVOUR OF BEING PART OF THE BASQUE COUNTRY GOT LESS THANT THE 12% OF THE VOTES

"Pero las objetivas dificultades que pr·cticamente imposibilitan la existencia de un Euskadi unificado tienen otra variante significativa, cual es que una apuesta de este tipo probablemente acabarÌa por romper lo que es actualmente el PaÌs Vasco. Entre otras razones porque el territorio de ¡lava, en el que las fuerzas nacionalistas est·n en franca minorÌa, podrÌa segregarse. De hecho, esta es la amenaza que invoca obsesivamente Unidad Alavesa, partido que al grito de "Nosostros nos quedamos en EspaÒa" nunca ha hecho ascos a que las dos provincias restantes --Vizcaya y Guip?zcoa-- quieran independizarse.
Sin embargo, los mismos vascos que defienden el derecho a la autodeterminaciÛn, que se oponen a la independencia y que creen en la unidad territorial de Euskadi aceptarÌan que ¡lava abandonara un PaÌs Vasco independiente para quedarse en EspaÒa."

FROM THE ARTICLE: WRITEN BY PELO APEZETXE “øAdonde iremos los vascos de Navarra? øQue el tÌtulo es un tanto raro? Quiz· sÌ, pero no tan difÌcil de entender. Pues parece que en Navarra a los vascos no nos quieren(...).El vasco, pues, no es m·s querido en Iparralde que en Navarra, porque Francia no conoce quÈ es la lengua vasca.”

THIS ARTICLE SAYS , WHERE CAN WE GO THE BASQUES OF NAVARRA? BECAUSE IT SEEM THAT BASQUES ARE NOT WANTED IN NAVARRA. AND IT ALSO SEEMS THAT WE ARE NOT WANTED IN FRANCE EITHER , THEY DON¥T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE BASQUE LANGUAGE IS.

http://www.interrogantes.net/includes/documento.php?IdDoc=1882&IdSec;=222
´ . Lo que dicen los votos es que casi la mitad de los ciudadanos vascos, y la inmensa mayorÌa de los navarros, ven las cosas de otra manera y no tienen dificultad para compaginar su identidad vasca o navarra con su ciudadanÌa espaÒola. (...)
En Navarra, la mayorÌa no tiene dificultad en seguir siendo navarros y espaÒoles, y no quieren alterar su amplia autonomÌa foral integr·ndose en ninguna otra instituciÛn autonÛmica ni federal. (...)”

THE ARTICLE SAYS THAT IN NAVARRA, THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH THE FACT OF BEING NAVARRANS AND SPANIARDS BECAUSE THE NAVARRANS DON¥T WANT TO CHANGE THEIR WIDE HISTORICAL AUTONOMY ,AND THAT¥S THE REASON WHY THEY DON¥T WANT TO BE INCLUDED IN ANOTHER AUTONOMICAL INSTITUTION ( REFERRING TO THE BASQUE COUNTRY).

http://www.elsemanaldigital.com/articulos.asp?idarticulo=4188

La marea humana que el pasado lunes llenÛ las calles de Pamplona en solidaridad con los dos policÌas nacionales asesinados no era esperada por Ajuria Enea, y asombrÛ a los inquilinos de Sabin Etxea. El "plan Ibarretxe" tiene que tener muy en cuenta esta evidente posiciÛn de los navarros, que quieren la paz y que quieren conservar su identidad navarra y espaÒola.

La lealtad navarra, en estos momentos de zozobra, puede ser la luz y el apoyo que el Gobierno de la NaciÛn precisa para afrontar el terror nacionalista. Frente a un nacionalismo que mata, los navarros han dicho en las calles que est·n dispuestos a defenderse. Frente a un separatismo que miente y falsifica el pasado, el presente y el futuro, los navarros quieren seguir siendo lo que siempre han sido. Frente a la aventura plebiscitaria de ETA y del PNV, los navarros ha dicho, con claridad indudable, que est·n democr·ticamente del lado de la Ley y de EspaÒa.

THE ARTICLE SAYS THAT THE NAVARRANS ARE THE BEST ALLIES IN THE SPANISH GOVERNMENT, THEY FACE THE TERRORISM OF ETA DEMONSTRATING IN THE STREETS. NAVARRANS HAVE SAID CLEARLY THAT THEY WANT PEACE AND THAT THEY WANT TO KEEP THEIR NAVARRAN AND SPANISH IDENTITIES.THE NAVARRANS WANT TO KEEP ON BEING WHAT THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN. THE NAVARRANS HAVE SAID VERY CLEARLY THAT THEY ARE SUPPORTING SPAIN AND THE LAW.

http://www.jaimeignaciodelburgo.net/ocaso_02.htm

“Pero para Arzallus, Navarra no es nada o sÛlo un incordio. CometiÛ una grave equivocaciÛn en tiempos de la transiciÛn, cuando quiso doblegar la voluntad de los navarros tratando de aplicar una polÌtica de hechos consumados. Desde entonces se siente incÛmodo en Navarra. Tiene la sensaciÛn -lo ha dicho y se irrita por ello- de que es tratado como un invasor. Yo dirÌa que Arzallus, en Navarra, es un fracasado”

ARZALLUZ WHO IS A RADICAL BASQUE POLITICIAN ,THAT FIGHTS TO GET AN EUSKALERRIA BUILT BY THE 7 ANCIENT REGIONS ( AND WHO IS A LITTLE FASCIST )SAID THAT NAVARRA MEANS NOTHING TO HIM, HE WANTED NAVARRA TO BE PART OF THE BASQUE COUNTRY AND HE FAILED. SINCE THAT MOMENT HE DOESN¥T FEEL COMFORTABLE IN NAVARRA, NAVARRA ONLY MEANS TROUBLE TO HIM, WHEN HE IS IN NAVARRA HE HAS THE FEELING THAT PEOPLE TREAT HIM AS AN INVADER.

http://www.iespana.es/revista-arbil/(43)nava.htm

http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/euskalherria/message/770

http://www.map-of-spain.co.uk/basque_country_maps.htm

http://www.softguides.com/spain/regiones/pais_vasco.html

http://www.navarra.com/navarra/instituciones.htm

http://www.red2000.com/spain/region/1r-vasc.html

http://www.cnnenespanol.com/2001/mundo/espana/04/21/especial.vascas.sistema/

http://www.factmonster.com/ce6/history/A0810458.html

http://www.filewine.es/vasco.htm

I COULD SAY MORE BUT AS I SAID BEFORE , WHAT FOR?.

I also want to make clear that the things I¥m 3gonna talk about has nothing to do with my personal opinion, because as I said before I respect all different kinds of opinions and demands, what I don¥t respect is terrorism."
/ dixit

GALA thank you for your precision as that the things are clear...

for me and after purifying your too LONG post, this is what I retain of your message: And it's all that interests me TO READ...

__________________________________________________

Gala merci pour votre precision comme Áa
les choses sont claires...

pour moi et en Èpurant votre LONG post, voila ce que je retiens de votre message : Et c'est tout ce qui m'interesse de LIRE, (mais vous aviez
pas besoin de vous justifier...?)

cordialement y hasta luego senora. :)

I can't think of a reason.

Or, as they said in the movie Clue, "To make a long story short ..."

"TOO LATE!"

Gala,
Why are you posting this here? A large majority of the people posting here (everyone but yourself)care little or nothing for the "basque problem."

Those gerbils are typing in all caps again! *whack* *whack*

In honor of the Basque Seperatist movement - I try to use the name of the basque in many of my daily convesations.

They "basque" in the glory of others...

I went to "Basque" and Robbins......

Kentucky Fried Chicken has many "basquets" of greasy bits and pieces...

Kobe Bryant man soon be not playing "basquetball"

Even on Sunday I watch them pass the offering "basquet"...

Viva el seperatists! No comparta su ropa interior con las mujeres opresivas de los tamaÒo m·s grande que ellos atar·n usted en el fin.

Gala is posting here about the Basque problem just to annoy you because she knows Americans just care about themselves.

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.

Just because I say, "I don't care"

only means, "I don't care",

or possibly interpreted as, "so?"

or maybe, "fusebox blacks the wet orange".

Make it short, someone might read it.

i do care,i did not read it end i fully agree with the "Make it short, someone might read it." part of the last post

Charles Martel was a jerk. Shoulda let the Moors keep Spain.

The only thing we should all be concerned about,

is that by showing too much indifference, towards being apathetic,
it may make us appear that we care too much about our disinterestedness .

But if you guys aren't really that responsive to the post of perplexity that Gala perpetrated upon us,
and about the living conditions of the - goat herding people living in the western Pyrenees,

then I won't give a bearded ruminant mammals, behind, either....

I think Michael Moore should do a documentary on the Moors efforts to keep Spain. Then he should be forced to skip a meal.

Ezekial 25:17 - The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you.

Max, that was for you, a little food for thought

I've seen Pulp fiction too

I was just answering to La Fayette. La Fayette posts here, doesn¥t him?. As I said I wanted to make sure he will read it.

I warned you at the beginning of the message, so if you are not interested , there is something very easy you can do, not to read it :-)

Send him an e-mail. Don't clog the blog.

Mike G.,

[Please Note: ScrappleFace readers are intelligent enough to express themselves without obscenities. ScrappleFace endeavors to be suitable for all ages. If an obscene interloper posts here, please report the incident to the blogmaster who will delete the comment. (Include the name, date and time of the comment.) So please take that extra moment to think of a civil synonym.]

Mike G.,

Thanks for turning me on to Enrique, it was fabulous, so wild we lost count...

This is a good one. All those little jabs like 'caliber' and 'heavy heart'. I didn't notice most of them until I read it over a second time - this is a really funny story. May their stomachs roast, and may Satan play darts with them eternally. Hopefully, their dad will soon join them. Then we will have won the Battle to BagDad.

Gala: We don't give a darn what is happening about the Basques. And I wish you would stop posting HUGE COMMENTS IN ALL CAPS ON EVERY SINGLE RECENT THREAD. IT IS VERY ANNOYING AND WASTES SPACE. IT ALSO REMINDS ME OF THAT IDIOT FRENCHMAN EVERY TIME YOU DO IT, SINCE HE AND HIS MANY SCREEN NAMES DID THAT A LOT. So quit it.

Cassandra states that she would feel bad about killing another human being. But what about killing the Hussein boys? They are by no stretch of the imagination human beings. They are maddog killers who didn't deserve to live as long as they did.

I would feel awful were I to kill another human being, but I could have killed either or both of these two without so much as batting an eyelash.

killing hussein,s psychopuppy,s was not murder
at worst it can be considered as adding some chlorine to the gene-pool

I was just answering to La Fayette. La Fayette posts here, doesn¥t him?. As I said I wanted to make sure he will read it.

I warned you at the beginning of the message, so if you are not interested , there is something very easy you can do, not to read it :-) /
dixit gala

senora Gala,

confirmo haber leÌdo por cortesÌa hacia su trabajo
una parte de su largo mensaje, pero efectivamente no leÌ el conjunto...

no sÈ si por otra parte su mensaje tuvo un gran interÈs por parte de los americanos de este foro?
saludos ;)

I read something very interesting in the paper today. An Iraqi was quoted as wishing that we had captured the Brothers Gruesome alive, so they could be tried and punished. When asked what punishment he thought was appropriate, he said something like this: we should cut a small piece of flesh off of them every day until they died.

Gala: Look, you're using this blog as your personal message board for whatever the heck you feel like yabbering about at the moment. Now either quit it, or go somewhere else. It's very inconsiderate - if I was to come over to your house, sit on the front lawn, and play Metallica at 150 decibels, well, you could just ignore it. But you would tell me to shut it off. So I will do the same - GALA STOP POSTING IRRELEVANT THINGS THAT NO ONE CARES ABOUT, YOU INCONSIDERATE BOOR!

I will never say this again if you stop. But if you don't, I will never stop pestering you until you do.

PS: whoever is messing with BTS's screen name is hereby ordered to cease and desist.

Max,
please read--
I am we Todd
I am sofa king we Todd Ed

intolerance whether by christians or muslim, al queada, liberal, conservative or whatever will always lead to the same thing.

death and someone rejoicing over your death.

in my own insanity

butthead